to not want....

[ohgivemestrength]

my ss to come and live with us? :(
Flame me if you want lol, I'll give details in a bit just wondering what people would say without knowing the background!

AgentZigzag yes in all repect to them they have fought very hard to maintain contact, thousands spent on solicitors etc BUT it takes more than buying things and allowing a child to behave as he wants with no consequences to show love and stability.

NulliusInVerba no SSM doesn't see him for weeks on end e.g. Easter holidays nearly 3 weeks off and she had him for 3 days at the end of the holidays then he went back to GP for 4 days, she had him back for 1 and he went back to GP again, she went away Thurs for a 'break' because she was stressed out and hasn't said when she's coming back and GP won't ring to find out! I can see where he gets his language from and that lies with GP and SSM. He is also cruel to the animals!

Yes I can take him in and care for him but in what capacity when I'm not given any leeway to treat him as my own and bring him up as I would my own? When I'm undermined for disciplining him when he's behaving innapropriately? I've been told that he's nothing to do with me and that he's not mine. At the end of the day I HAVE to make sure DS is brought up in an acceptable environment where there is no danger to him, and yes it may seem that I am demonising SS but I have real fears that he will do something to hurt DS if left alone with him.

Yes if he did come to live with us SSM could come at any point and demand him back as she has PR, I know OH is on the birth certificate but what rights does that give him?

What's interesting here is that no-one has said about SSM stepping up to the plate and taking reponsibility for her own child!

Your DH sounds spineless, SSM/GPs not your problem, but I would be very careful with being married to such a pathetic mummy's boy.

That poor poor child.

It is clear that he cannot come to live with you if you are not allowed to guide or discipline him and it will be demanded that you allow him to hit you and the baby and to swear at you. I realise he is only 6, but is it reasonable that you should allow that?

So no, I would say no if that was the deal.

I would say that he can certainly come to live with you, but he must be guided and disciplined and he will be expected to behave appropriately and he will face consequences for unacceptable behaviour.

That boy is crying out for rules, for boundaries - for safety! He must feel so unsafe. He needs consistancy in his life. He needs guidance.

You could change this child's life.

But if you are expected to take him into your home and you already know that any attempt to modify unacceptable behaviours will be met by world war 3, then I think you should say no. and in your shoes, I would be saying that perhaps husband should move into his parents house to care for his son.

re SSM - it sounds to me like she is out of her depth and quite possibly seriously bullied by your husband's parents. They've never given her the chance to be a mother and she possibly now feels she's not up to it. Or maybe she's never had to grow up and be a mother because they took the baby much of the time. Or perhaps she's not the maternal type. Who knows what the deal is there?

What matters is that there is a little boy who is being failed. He needs love, consistency, boundaries, rules, support. He needs a home and a family.

A normal family!

He's 6. It's not too late. He's just a baby. Imagine if nothing changes - what do you think he will grow into?

I wish I could take him myself. I really do. I honestly and truly do. poor, poor boy.

And I feel for you to. I get the feeling you would be more than happy to try with this boy, and have a place for him in your family and heart - if you were not expected to allow him to behave in totally unacceptable ways.

Yes exactly what I see as being a normal family!! Normal to me is being guided, having boundaries, rules, praise for being good and consequences for bad behaviour, stability etc....

He could come but I know what would happen, inteference from GP, SM playing up making lives hell (as she has previously done, taking him when she choses and stopping access also she moved into a rented house literally so I can see into her kitchen window from mine so I have now bought a new house and we are moving), OH being spineless and not allowing me to treat him as I would my own child!

He is being failed by not having consistency, boundaries, rules but he has plenty of love and materialistic things.

Would it be an idea to involve Social Services? Does anybody know what they would be likely to do in this situation? The 'adults' involved here are failing this child, maybe an external agency could impose order on the chaos being visited on this child.

The mother may not have been mentioned much as we are offering you advice, and really, in your situation you have no power over her behaviour. You could influence your partners behaviour.

It sounds rather unfair to expect you to "half parent" this child, either you can or you cant. You OH needs to understand that.

The mother could be very depressed, not coping, over powered by the GP's, or she could just be a shit selfish mother. We dont know her so I cant comment.

I asked regarding the language as GP's who tip toe round him all the time and are scared to even say no dont sound the type to be screaming fuck off and cunt at him.

To be honest, if he is hurting animals and babies this sounds like it could become a serious problem. A child who feels no love from its mother / carers could end up with an attachment disorder leading to all sorts of emotional problems. He needs to be somewhere stable and consistent to heal this. By the way where are Social services? Has the mother or GP had any involvement?

He get's the language from his GP as that is how they speak to each other which in my book is totally unacceptable, I say to them now don't speak like that infront of DS as I don't want him using that language. SS aren't involved and from my professional experience of them I find them useless. There is a lack of serious parenting going on.

Agreed - they are useless, but isnt it a bit odd they havent appeared yet?

What do SS school say? Surely they've noticed that mom never picks him up? Does she go to parents evening or events? And how is his behaviour at school?

Agree with Morloth. Christ, I want to rescue the poor boy.

SS is excellent in school no problems whatsoever, SSM does pick him up occassionaly but 90% of the time it's GP, OH or me. When SS stays with his mother GP pick him up in the morning to make sure he's in school. OH goes to parents evening, she doesn't!

Despite my last post I do feel sorry for this boy but if the OP is not allowed to discipline him and is constantly undermined by her DP and his parents then it would be madness to let him move in. He may be 6 now but one day he'll be a teenager and possibly, probably, bigger and stronger than the OP. If he's allowed to get away with bad behaviour then he could do some real damage if he physically lashes out.

I agree with the OP when she says that her DS deserves to grow up in a safe, calm, secure environment. With the way things are, and it doesn't seem likely to change, the SS cannot move in because the OP cannot trust him to be left alone with the baby.

OP your DP needs to either grow a spine and stand up to his parents or maybe he could move back in with mummy and daddy and try to parent his son there.

I have to agree with WhereYouLeftIt, I think you should involve SS. You may have found them useless in the past but might just get lucky this time. If this boy is being cruel to animals and hurting your DS then he needs professional help.

I agree OH needs to stand up to his parents and I say to him why don't you tell them etc but they are incredibly overbearing and undermining which I think makes him feel that they must be right in what they're saying and in a way he's given up! E.g I took SS to shop, he ran off across the road lots of times once in front of the bus, got back told OH as SS lied to him about where I was (running behind him) OH gave him a row and explained about safety and took his ice cream off him as consequence, GM came back and had a go at OH and smothered SS in kisses and got him a lollipop!! No regards to the fact OH had given him consequence and no consideration that he could have been knocked down!

The GPS are your OH parents yes? Not the mothers parents?

Where are her parents are they not around?

If they are his parents he really needs to be cutting the apron strings. The reality is if someone doesnt step up to the plate and look after this boy properly he will end up in the care system.

Funny thing GP can see what's being done wrong but they bury their heads in the sand. GM will say I've never known a child to have so many toys he's spoilt...hello YOU buy him the toys every week! Classic one was I don't know why he behaves like this to which I replied it's learned behaviour and it's because you allow it and there are no boundaries...she just put her head down and didn't say anything :(

x-posts, yes well he is a gronw man now, he would and should have more say in the matter if his son lived with him though.

In reality, GPs have no right to this child, he does.

If the mother doesnt want him I really dont see why he hasnt been living with your OH for some time.

Did I misunderstand a post you made earlier, I may have, did you say they were getting on while you were pregnant? So did they get back together or did your relationships overlap? May have read that wrong

Yes OH parents. Her parents are around but I think they are frustrated with her as she appears not to want the responsibility.

I think the whole situation boils down to....
GP fear that she will start her games again and stop them from seeing SS if they give him boundaries, consequences etc hence the reluctance to do so which is simply resulting in a terrible situation
GP and OH fear to ask her to be a decent mother and take responsibility for her son
OH fear that she will take him to live hundreds of miles away
Basically they are afraid of her
OH having had his parents monopolise SS from day 1 and not allowing him to be a parent and now when he tries is brushed aside and not able to do it his way

In an ideal world the access days would be stuck to so everyone knows where they are..with her for 5 then us for 2 and limited involvement from everyone else but that's not going to happen.

No they were on and off whilst she was pregnant, had SS, things got very nasty, her taking his son away for weeks and OH not seeing him, then leaving him with GP etc all resulting in court case. OH has been split from her for 6 years we've been together for 2 so no overlap at all.

OH lived with his parents until he moved in with me and SS was effectively with OH in his parents house.

Ok I was wondering if she maybe had animosity towards you - in that case then I would bypass GP altogether. Go and speak to her, both of you.

Ask what is really going on, is she not coping? Are they being to overbearing?
But do it as a friend not an accusor.

She may well say yes to one of the above.

Then you say, ok we want to help. From now on SS comes to us. You tell us what days, we write down a set agreement, you get a break / GP arent ruling the roost, and SS gets stability. Make this agreement and stick to it.

Then OH has to do his bit. He has to stick to this agreement, and explain firmly to the GP that from now on their contact with SS is through him.
You may be suprised what the mother tells you if you approach it the right way. Definitley sounds like there is something else going on here to me.

No we were civil to each other and used to have a chat but then for some unknown reason she decided to move into the house literally opposite us and since then she hasn't spoken to me! OH doesn't and won't speak to her, doesn't even have her mobile no, all comm is done via GP which is bloody childish, they should speak if it's only for the child! It's all speculation but I think she's like this as GP have made it too easy for her to leave SS with them and they've never said no as they think she'll stop them seeing him and they are overbearing as when she does have him they're on the phone asking does she want him to go up. I have said to OH that he needs to talk to her to sort something out but he flat refuses. So if I can't get him to even talk to her then there is going to be no solution from what I can see :(

To those saying the OP is unreasonable and should take this child in without a second thought, how does it help the child to move from one environment where he has no boundaries and no guidance for his behaviour, to another environment where one adult will not enforce boundaries and the other is not allowed to do so?

There is absolutely no point in the OP rushing in and saying "yes, welcome to my home" if being there is going to make no difference because the OP is not allowed to step-parent him effectively. It strikes me that the OP is the only adult in this child's life who is taking the time to discuss her concerns for him. She isn't saying 'no way'.

I would be inclined to think about doing things very formally in this situation - asking for a residence agreement and, if necessary, going back to court to get it. That way the mother can't just come and uproot him again when the fancy takes him - she would have to jump through hoops to do so.

If you don't want to go down the legal route, I think you should lay down some absolutely unbreakable ground-rules - get OH and his parents to sign a piece of paper that you can wave in their faces if they try to undermine you.

You could be just what this child needs - but this could also be another failure in his life if it isn't handled properly. On that basis, if you can't get the other adults in his life on board I think your answer should be no, for now at least.

You do know that what you see is what will happen to you if you and he split up, don't you?

If he can't grow the fuck up and communicate with the mother of one child, what makes you think you can expect any different?

I mean, you're already seeing it in some way, with his attitude to you on this matter, aren't you?

I think you've got a real problem with him that you need to address.

Thank you kungfupannda I'm not saying no way, I'm saying things have to be though about long and hard and done in a sensible and formal manner which will suit all the people involved. There would be nothing stopping SSM wading in and taking him back, GP could do the same, possible her parents will get involved.

You can't just jump in say yes, there are a lot of practical things to think about and sort out aswell...what happens when I go back to work re childcare? I work a 40 hr wk with work to do at home, OH does 12-16 hr shift work, there's the financial side of it, my DS as well, space in the house lots of things to think about and take into consideration.