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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to charge friends going rate for childminding?

105 replies

whethergirl · 20/05/2011 22:50

My neighbours are friends of mine and so is our ds, who go to the same school. Over the last few years I've helped them out with babysitting as they both work. I've been happy to do this as favours, they are always happy to help me if I need anything, as friends do.

They told me the other day they were going to interview a childminder to pick up their ds from school a couple of days a week, and some full days during the school hols. They told me they were thinking about asking me, but I think they were feeling a bit awkward about it. But we agreed, as I need the money and they need a childminder, it would actually be a perfect arrangement.

I told them, as they were friends, I would not charge them as much as their usual childminder (they have another regular childminder who does weekends and late evenings). They pay her £6ph, I said I would accept £4. They said no, they were happy to pay me the full rate. Anyway, the conversation ended but I went away and decided that I would offer to charge them £5 ph, all inclusive - meaning any extra costs for lunch, entry fees etc, I'd be happy to absorb. This is because they are friends, and I don't want to take the piss.

I looked after their ds from 12-6 today (inset day), took the kids to the farm. She handed me an envelope, said that there was change included for snacks, farm entry etc and rushed off. I was surprised to find £50 inside! £40 notes and £10 change. This works out to more than £6 per hour!

I was going to tell them that it was too much, but my friend reckons I should just keep it, and at most, hand over any change from the £10 for expenses (but spent about £10 on expenses anyway).

AIBU to keep the cash? I just feel that because we're friends, I shouldn't take it. On top of it all, the other childminder came and picked him up 20 mins early!

OP posts:
MumblingRagDoll · 21/05/2011 00:07

518008 Are you having a bad night?

"Right back atcha" indeed!

Hmm Grin Hmm Grin

MumblingRagDoll · 21/05/2011 00:07

Rita Could she not be self employed and responisble for herself though? In terms of tax etc?

MumblingRagDoll · 21/05/2011 00:08

Responsible...not responisble! Makes it sound French!

buttonmoon78 · 21/05/2011 00:09

That's right.

pooka · 21/05/2011 00:10

From what I can glean, if the care is for less than two hours or it takes place on less than 14 days in a year it is not something that would require registration. For teenage babysitters, advice is that no teen should babysit Before the age of 16 and if they are under 16..

RitaMorgan · 21/05/2011 00:10

Mumbling - unlikely to be able to be self-employed as a nanny. It's only possible in limited circumstances - temp nannies, maternity nannies, emergency/ad hoc childcare providers. If you are working for one family on a regular basis in their home you would be an employee.

buttonmoon78 · 21/05/2011 00:10

Well, that moved fast!

If she was self employed then she would have to have some responsibility for the premises and also for insurance etc which you can only get if you are registered.

RitaMorgan · 21/05/2011 00:11

pooka - childcare is also only regulated in daytime hours. Something like 8pm-6am (can't remember the details) is unregulated.

MumblingRagDoll · 21/05/2011 00:11

Ah.

Such a pain. I know it's to protect people ultimately....but so many community arrangements are scuppered by the complexties of the law.

buttonmoon78 · 21/05/2011 00:13

Childminders have to be regulated to have children overnight. And have a fire assessment carried out by the local fire service.

MumblingRagDoll · 21/05/2011 00:13

Rita So really....if I worked nights and wanted to pay Mrs Gubbins from over the road to come in and look after my DC then she could do it much more easily than the OP could in her situation?

Original poster
whethergirl · 21/05/2011 00:14

But there is always a risk that something could have happened to their ds whilst in my care, paid or not. As they are friends, it won't be handled any differently.

I don't have or need a first aid cert or food handling training to look after my own ds. They are happy for me to look after their ds in the same way I do my ds, like I always have.

They feel I have done them too many favours. Originally, when they tried to pay me (about a year ago), I told them they could just childmind my DS in return. But they are never free to babysit for my DS! So they want to help me, for helping them. I am in a financially dire situation, they would rather give their money to a friend to help out than to a stranger.

worraliberty -Their business is busy only in the Summer, so they are around all Winter! The childminder they use has been looking after their ds since he was newborn, and he sees her more as an aunty than a childminder.

OP posts:
pooka · 21/05/2011 00:14

Ah - that makes sense. Knew that was allowed but could only find limited nfo

MumblingRagDoll · 21/05/2011 00:14

x post with Buttonmoon

buttonmoon78 · 21/05/2011 00:14

I'm not sure about if she came to yours, but CMs have to abide by the rules I've just mentioned.

MumblingRagDoll · 21/05/2011 00:15

whether Of course...you're right. But whatever...it still seems you'd be breaking the law. I am sure many do it though.

RitaMorgan · 21/05/2011 00:16

She might still be your employee though Mumbling, childcare regulations and employment law are different.

ravenAK · 21/05/2011 00:16

If the child is 5, & you're being paid to mind him away from his own home, then you do need to be registered.

Babysitters in the child's home are different - ie. I pay my CM to look after my 3 dc before/after school, in her home: she needs to be registered, insured, Ofsteded, etc etc.

I pay my 21 year old student mate to look after them for the weekend, in our house - that's OK.

pooka · 21/05/2011 00:17

I think you are naive to imagine that if there were a safety issue or accident, the full weight of the law would not come down on you. By accepting money you are putting yourself in an illegal position and it's you that would take the flak.

buttonmoon78 · 21/05/2011 00:19

And same to you mumbling Grin

The point whethergirl is not how you perceive your relationship to be. If you had an accident in your car and are carrying a child for whom you have received money unless you have full business use you are uninsured.

If you have an accident in your home or car and should the worst happen or the child is left hugely disabled, who is going to pay for the things that child needs?

When people's precious children are hurt, killed, contract food poisoning, that has a tendancy to overrule any existing friendship and it has happened that people have been in both criminal and civil proceedings which involve former friends.

You are being v naive about the whole thing TBH. I know it's a hassle, but you are putting yourself in a v dodgy (and illegal) position.

MumblingRagDoll · 21/05/2011 00:20

It's true wether and accidents DO happen sometimes...

buttonmoon78 · 21/05/2011 00:23

Mind you, if the going rate round here was £6 per hour I'd not have given up!

I was getting only just over half that and still had to pay for my insurance (of various sorts), some of my training, etc out of that.

Original poster
whethergirl · 21/05/2011 00:24

So if there was an accident and their DS got injured in my care, and I wasn't gettting paid, who would pay for the child's needs then?

OP posts:
Original poster
whethergirl · 21/05/2011 00:27

£6 ph around where I live is quite reasonable buttonmoon. The going rate is more like £7ph.

OP posts:
buttonmoon78 · 21/05/2011 00:27

But there would then be no legal implication in terms of whether you should have been getting paid or not.

There would still be a civil implication. If they could pin any sort of blame on you at all, they probably would and sue the pants off you.

That is why insurance is necessary. Think of it as professional indemnity insurance. But you won't get that without registering as a CM.

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