returning from maternity leave onto sick leave

[undecidedreworking]

I've got depression/PTSD resulting from a nightmare birth that resulted in permanent physical harm. I can't really face returning to work. I can't decide whether I should return onto sick leave though as I could get a doctor's note for PTSD as am having counselling for this.

AIBU to return onto sick leave even though I'll probably never go back??

ceebeegeebies I do see your point of view. Although as I think a few people have pointed out if this hadn't happened I definitely would have gone back.

But I'm not sure if the fact I might never go back makes it dishonest.. if for example someone had a terminal disease that they were never going to recover from presumeably that'd be able to claim sick pay initially from their employer even though it might be clear from the outset they'd never return?

I never said that someone who lost their legs would get indefinite sick leave, I used it as an example to see if trifle viewed physical illness/disability differently to mental illness which in some cases is as debilitating as a physical disability.some people think pnd doesn't exist, likewise with PTSD and they both do exist.there are unfortunately still some very sad attitudes towards mental health.

Of course it isn't right that anyone should string out sick leave but someone with pnd and or PTSD isn't in the right frame of mind to make a life changing decision regarding their future employment.the op has been diagnosed and is receiving treatment and is going to speak to her employer, what else should she do?her employer may have access to additional resources to help her return to work or may offer a different role or home based working short term etc etc.I don't think she comes across as a grabby person, but rather as someone who is seeking advice on what she may be entitled to if needed.

I would agree if there is no intention to ever return to work regardless if your depression improved or not it would be dishonest, but how does someone with depression know that they don't just feel like they would never return because of the depression? When in actual fact after treatment they may feel wholly able to return to work be that in 2 weeks, 2 months.....

IMO her employer is best placed to give her advice on what as a company they are willing/able to offer with regard to her returning to work and then she will be able to make an informed decision with support hopefully from people close to her.

You should e-mail your employer to explain the situation and maybe offer to go on SSP as you may not return. That way you are being honest and if you do resign it will be on good terms. Good luck to you and your family. I hope you get this sorted.

i think u will find pensioned of is figure of speech take no notice of trifle go sick sick notes r so complicated nowdays if the dr feels u r unfit to work then take it if no sick pay from co then get ssp for 26 weeks then incapacity benefit after year get higher rate ( not called incapacity anymore can not remember what itis) but it could take a long time to feel 100% but they will have to get an o/h review from private co at the end of the day u have to put yourself first and what is best for u at this time hopefully in the future u will be able to return to work

Let's look at this from a positive point of view - let's say you feel up to a full-time job again (who knows how long that could be - I'm not putting a figure on it).

So you return to work, and all the people who have been covering for you are going to feel somewhat resentful for whatever time you've had off. That's a fact - if they've been covering for you, then their workload has gone up and you've caused them more stress and affected their family life. Even if they understand that depression and sickness is not you fault (and it can happen to anyone) they're still going to jump onto every comment you make about say, your niece's brithday you went to in July or last Christmas or the Royal Wedding since you were supposedly too sick to work but could enjoy those things. It is not a nice environment to work in.

Switch that around: you decide to resign after a long period of sick leave where you didn't keep them fully appraised, where other people were covering your work and they legally had to keep the job open for you. You then feel well enough to apply to lots of jobs, and they ask you for 1) a recommendation from your last employer and 2) why you resigned. What exactly are you going to say?

By taking advantage of generous maternity/sick pay you're simply storing up misery. Resign now and sort yourself out so you're in a position to be able to get well and not have this extended dubiety hanging over your head.

Northern girl makes some very good points. I personally would feel very guilty about going onto sick leave in these circs, but I do have a bit of a thing about it - I only took one days sick leave in the six months I was on chemo & returned to work 3 weeks after major surgery rather than the 8 recommended as I felt bad that my clients' problems were backing up with no one to sort them out.

If lots of other employees have been off on long term sick with stress-related conditions then it says something about them as a company IMO. If they were really brilliant employers I would feel a bit guilty about not resigning, but in this instance I would go on sick, as you are genuinely not well, and this gives you time to think things through and a bit of a financial buffer as after all you're not fit to get another job and work elsewhere yet either.

There's not a clause where you have to pay back any maternity pay if you don't go back is there? Or will this be negated if you go on sick?

I agree tht northern girl makes some good points. It is also worth noting that your employer is likely to have absence management procedures aimed at getting you back to work as soon as possible.

I don't say this to encourage you to resign but you need to be aware your company are unlikely to pay you sick pay and not want to talk to you about returning work. Hopefully they will be concerned for you and sympathetic to your situation but ultimtely they will need to make a decision about whether they can continue to employ you. This could result in your dismissal on capability grounds, which could create questions when applying for other jobs.

It is now illegal to insist on a pre mployment medical before an offer of employment and bad practice for number of days sick to be asked on an application form so I wouldn't worry too much about that.

Havinkg said all that, I do agree that you shouldn't be making any rah decisions. Why not take it on a month to month basis and see how you feel?

I'd definitely take it on a month to month basis. I went off sick from my old job, due to bullying in the workplace, which made me ill (anxiety & depression). I had worked there for 11 years, and been an excellent employee. I eventually took 9 months off sick (paid 6 months full pay, then onto 1/2 pay). In the end, I took voluntary severence. Yes, I felt guilty about not going back, and taking money as sick pay when I knew it was unlikely I would return, but this is part of the give and take of an employee/employer relationship, in my opinion. I worked 60 hour weeks for years, only being paid for 35 hours, so I guess it balanced out eventually! I now don't feel guilty at all.

But, my point is (getting round to it eventually) - you possibly aren't in a fit state to make that decision at the moment. I know I wasn't for a considerable time. Take some space and time to decide what is best for you, and don't feel too guilty about it. Just my thoughts...!

I went straight onto sick leave from maternity leave.

Basically I had to have serious operation when DD was 11 months old. I'd been on the waiting list or 5 months, so agreed with my company well in advance that was what was going to happen, and took my maternity leave right up to the 12 month mark (actually three weeks after my operation), then switched across to sick leave until I was fully recovered.

Something you might not be aware of - if you're on your unpaid part of the maternity leave (no idea what your package is) you DO NOT qualify for statutory sick pay. It's assessed on your last month of earnings, and if that is nothing then you get nothing, doesn't matter what your normal wage is. You may or may not have your official sick days left which you can be paid full pay for, or whatever your company policy is - if its a small company it will probably be about 15-20 days at full pay then onto SSP (or not, in your case) but if there is anything in your contract which says your sick pay is assessed on your earnings in the previous month, you'll get nothing from them either. So, if you're not planning to go back anyway, I'm not sure what you would get out of the whole thing.

Please check with your employer to be totally sure what your sick arrangements are. Some companies have Permanent Health Insurance as a part of the benefits package. This is taken out by the company to pay your wages should you be unable to work - the insurer effectively mitigates the company's loss as they continue to pay you. Many employees don't even know it's a part of their package and don't claim. Best of luck x

If you employer is sensible you should be referred to an independent doctor for assessment and invited in for regular consultation meetings to discuss workplace adjustment and when you should be reasonably expected to return to work. A professional opinion may be that if you are not prepared to try anti-depressents then you are not doing everthing you can to make sure you are fit for work and to fulfil your contractual obligations to be available for work in return for your pay. If there is no indication of a forseeable return date with or without adjustments your employer will then be entitled to dismiss you because you are unable to do you job. This is likely to be upheld as a fair dismissal.

You need to consider the stress of the above, whether what you are planning to do is morally right as you say you don't know if you actualy want to go back anyway but think it is OK to claim sick pay. Remember also that you are unlikely to leave a particularly good impression with your employers and this will impact on references - they can't give a bad one but it will glow less between the lines, will possibly state that you were dismissed due to ill health and note a lengthy period of sickness. Is this really worth the potential damage to your future prospects. You have had a rough time. Don't compound your problems by doing anything unwise.

I hope you feel better soon. I know birth can be traumatic and horrific and hope in time you will come to terms with what has happened.

Thanks for all the replies. Oceamai - Tbh I don't think my employer is that sensible though I guess the only way would be to go on sick leave and check.

I agree a lot with what Jenstar21 said, I worked incredibly hard there when I was well so starting to think I shouldn't feel guilty for a bit of sick leave when I am sick.

Regarding getting another position I can't really see myself working in the same industry if I don't continue with my current job - long hrs and stressful, also I have friends/ex colleagues I could probably get a ref from.

Just a note of caution about the references - many employers, especially public sector ones, will insist on a reference from your last employer on company letterhead and from a named officer who can be telephoned to double check so please don't assume that refs from former colleagues/friends will be adequate.

if you really cant face going back, resign

and get this sorted as you need to continue with your life, try and adress it rather than be a victim to it . life must go on

if you are able to run a home and care for your family, why cantr you work????

Im not sure if my situation helps you OP, I went on maternity leave for 10 months, before that, I went on the sick, 3 weeks beforehand, and then started maternity leave. My birth was extreme, I needed repair surgery for 9 weeks afterwards, due to incompetence.

I then went back to work for 2 months, and went on sick leave again, after my left rib cage collapsed (due to delivery) . I was off for a total of 4 months.

went back to work, for 4 months, and my son and dh we're in a accident, and I was off for 8 months in total, with their accident recovery and also I suffered badly from PTSD. I returned to work for 3 weeks, had a massive asthma attack with collapsed both my lungs and was off for a total off 3 months.

My HR was fab, (boss a different matter) however back then I decided I was just going to quit, however I preserved, we have new management, and I love my job now. I was basically off for 2 years, full pay for 18 months of that, and then SSP for the rest.

Dont make rational decisions, go on sick, and leave it until you are mentally prepared to make a decision that isn't influenced by your mental health. I know I am glad I did.

"if you are able to run a home and care for your family, why cantr you work????"

Its not as simple as that, when your at home, all you have to do is care for your baby, housework and running a home can be left to your partner/mum etc...

when your having blackouts, and flashbacks, in a work force, its not nice to your colleagues and not nice on your own mental wellbeing.

PTSD, made me not sleep for 7 month, the flash backs made me sick on the spot, and I lost over 4 stone in weight, as I couldn't eat without gaggin. My mental health went from being strong to that of a sobbing wreck, seeing my husband and my son invasive surgeries did help either, as it only brought the flash back with a vengeance.

PTSD, is not as simple as saying "if you can care for a child, and look after your, home, why aren't you able to work"

Its like asking a person with depression, to suck it up and getting on with it, if only if it we're that easy".

This thread isn't about me, but that comment, has somewhat annoyed me, as attitudes like this, who simply dont understand the full effect of PTS, or what it fully entails for the suffer.

fair play

but reading OP I get no sense that she is trying to adress it, to DO anything. its just reads like she is being passive and expecting her employer to pick up tab

many many people have SHITTY things ongoing yet they manage to continue with their lives

people with serious illnesses, people with depression, I just dont think that going on long term sick will help

proven fact, the longer you are off work, the less likely you are to return

I am addressing the issue by going to counselling and accessing various other support. And suing the hospital. But these things are slow especially the counselling as I am having to pay privately due to NHS waiting lists being so long.

I feel that the working me was a whole different world away and I could just walk away but then think "hell, I was there for 8ys working really hard, perhaps I should go sick, as I really am unable to work". I get no sleep and have constant headaches and flashbacks, working in my old job (high pressure, long hrs, city professional) would just be impossible right now.

porcamiseria - that is a bit of a black and white statement, it's like saying that anyone with any kind of disability or illness that renders them unable to work should have their kids taken into care, which is of course bollocks. People get support systems into place to make provisions for the management of homelife if they are temporarily sick or incapacitated, whethe, physically or mentally, plus you don't really know enough about the OP to pass comment. Perhaps she can't manage everything at home without help and support?
Anyway OP it sounds like you have had a rough time so take your time in your decisions and concentrate on getting completely better.

Plus I think acknowledging her problems and paying for private counselling to try and resolve them is actually DOING something very positive and not just being passive.

"AIBU to return onto sick leave even though I'll probably never go back??

This was what concerned me OP, as hopefully you will move on from this and can start to get your life back

I dunno, hard to judge from a sentance really

OP hope you get better

I think you should take the time as sick leave because right now you are depressed and going through treatment for an illness.

WRT why you couldn't get treatment for the PTSD before now because the birth hapened 10 months ago - well, PTSD can be diagnosed only after 6 months have elapsed after the trauma. Trauma lasting beyond 6 months falls into the PTSD category and then it can be treated. Treating it earlier may not be effective.

As you are depressed and traumatised it may well feel like you will 'never go back' - but in fact you may be surprised. You cannot make those kinds of decisions now. Guilt can be part of trauma and depression, so acknowledge that you may feel guilty about taking sick pay from your employer but right now that feeling is part of your disorders and will pass.

Take the time you are entitled to and continue to work hard on repairing yourself. Things will get better and you will begin to feel different. Only then can you make an informed and balanced decision.

Trauma counselling can be highly effective and I hope it goes well for you.

You are sick you are having treatment therefore take sick leave. Until all issues and treatments are complete you are not really in a position to know if you will be 'capable' of going back to what you did. Lots of mums find their thoughts on paid work are different after DC now is not the time to make that decision wait until you are as well as you can be.

Good post from Tigerseye.

I also suffered from PTSD after having DD (and her twin sister being stillborn, no more explanation required probably). When I finished my maternity leave, I handed in my notice and took my notice period (3 months) as sick pay. This was the right thing for me to do, as I moved area and could no longer get to work (200 miles away). However, if I hadn't moved, I would have dearly loved my job back after a few months, but I wouldn't have been ready to make that decision straight away.

It has taken me 18 months of psychotherapy to get to the point where I am ready to work (actually I'm having another baby in 3 weeks so can't!). I think you need some time before making any rash decisions. In your case, this means taking a period of sick leave. Don't take the piss, but give yourself enough time to decide for sure.

I forget the name of the idiot (began with a 't') who said they don't employ people because of this kind of thing... They clearly know very little about employment, as SMP and SSP are payed by the government, not the company. Companies aren't obliged to provide more than that. I won't go into how stupid she came across in her pitifully poor understanding of PTSD (that old "pull yourself together attitude is far from helpful).

Anyhow OP, take a little time and get yourself better. Do get hold of a psychotherapist not a counsellor. Your GP should be able to refer you to a perinatal mental health team, and you should be a priority case. You might have to keep asking, but you shouldn't have to wait all that long. Make yourself heard.