to ask if you use state or private education

[manicinsomniac]

Sorry, I know it's a little rude and personal but I only ask because I think that only 7-8% of the children in the UK are privately educated yet on mumsnet it seems to be massively higher than that which I find interesting.

So, if I'm not being too unreasonable to ask, do/did/will you use private or state education for your child/ren?

No, Maypole, the parents who opt out of state schools make state schools bad. If the parents who care don't bother sending their children to state schools how are standards to rise? And a Grade A from Eton is worse than a Grade A from a Comp as far as university entrance is concerned. You would need an A* probably...

swanriver I hope you still feel like thant if your childs ends up drawing the short straw and ends up at the sink school in your la I hope you will feel getting the social mix right was worth it if your child flounders under the weight of bad behaviour, poor teaching and lacklustre head

Good for you for wanting to take the chance with your child but I and many don't want to I respect your choice of wanting to have your child in the local school for some grater good respect our choice not to want our children to end up worrying in tescos and to try to do everything to avoid that

Actually a grade A from a state school may be seen as better than one from a private school by universities and employers as they often think the state school pupil has had to work harder to achieve it.

"No, Maypole, the parents who opt out of state schools make state schools bad."
That actually made me LOL, and I don't use acronyms lightly.

Don't forget - there are special extra easy GCSEs for state schools. What with the rubbish teaching, crap facilities, feckless parents and disruptive pupils they is mo other way so many state school pupils could get As!

Swan perhaps you could show the same vigour to the parent's who don't care, then come back and tell us what we can do to help the state system?

I sorry i don't agree s a parent who is sending my child to a state the only choice would have only ever been a outstanding state or if I did not get that I would have opted out if their were no private schools and state was my only choice I would home school.

Do you really think if their were no private schools the "better" students parents wouldn't simply sort themselves so that that they monopolised certain state schools like people do already.

I have a sink school near me I would of downsized and moved before i would see my
Lo in that school so how would it move the social mix when the only way to get me to send my child their would be to force me under law.

Excellent state schools often are surrounded by very expensive houses which is elitist in itself. I am not sure what the answer is though

A school near here was considered "rough". It was not most people's first or even second choice. The comprehensive next door got all the middle class parents. Soon it was so oversubscribed that some of the middle class children whose parents didn't want them to go there ended up at the "rough" school. Within 4 years the intake of the school had changed so much, and the parental involvement had increased, along with other strategies of course -not just the parents - so that the school itself became a desirable learning environment. In the end all a school is a INTAKE OF PUPILS AND THEIR PARENTS. A private school might have a much higher proportion of committed parents, supervising homework. That doesn't make the teaching better. It makes the learning environment better certainly. But we teach our children most of what they know, school is only part of it.
Why would I pay to opt out, when I can give something to the community, not just interest, but funding if I'm pushed...money that benefits other more disadvantaged children in that school. Why would I give x thousand to a private school when I could help my local school for so much less...(if you want to put a price on it)
And have money to spare to enrich my child's education in other forms?

Swan presumably all of the children who usually ended up at that particular "rough" school all had to go elsewhere. How is that school faring?

I know lots of people on here privately educate because they want the best for their children, but do you not feel a bit guilty for it?

do you not ever think how you would feel if you loved and wanted the best for your children as you do now but just could afford it, what would you do then? and how do you manage to go on doing it knowing there are parents out there who will never be able to offer their children this option. i wouldnt feel right doing it personally. also its a pretty shit message to pass on to your children, you can buy anything and if you can you should. makes me cringe!!

State.

I was educated privately but I didn't want that for my DC (assuming I could afford it).

Not in the least, there was a more equal redistribution between different schools, as there were several high schools in the area. No one school became a sink school, which is what happens when a school gets a bad reputation, and parents pull out. That is a very spurious argument anyway, rather like saying I send my children to private school so deserving poor parents can use the highly rated local primary. The schools need all of us, not just some of us, to be truly comprehensive.

Knitted when I was actually at school I'd be the annoying one in the dorm keeping everyone awake with arguments on how crap it was that we were so privileged when there were so many kids out there, many brighter than us, who could take better advantage of the education. No one I was at school with could do anything about it, and unfortunately the situation is still the same. We all just want to do what is best for our kids and even if we have the semi-socialist beliefs and wish for a "just" society, it just isn't going to happen. That is the sad reality. I don't think it taught me that I am a better person or whatever you seem to think is the message received and indeed I was in the environment in question and questioning that.

My dc went to state schools my step dc went private-no difference at all in adult achievements-all 5 university graduates all have good careers all married with dc of their own[who are all state educated].

Well natto do know were you work but my fil is barrister and coming from Oxford opens far more doors than coming from any of lower unis

i hear what you are saying but it isnt really the ability of children in school to change it. itl never change is the wrong attititude to have, of course it wont if we all think that way, but i know what you mean about the general feeling of helplessness. it surely is those who are in these schols with extra facilities who benefit least.

never forget, those age ranges are rediculous. im in the same boat as you re primary school!! still wont private ed though, just dont agree with it. i dont blame others for it i just dont want to install those values in my children.

maypole1, I was talking about A grades from GCSEs and A Levels from schools ie what we are talking about in this thread. universities are a different matter and I know that a degree from Oxford looks better to a lot of people. but to get to Oxford you need A Levels, I got mine from a state school, some of my fellow students got theirs from private schools. in fact in those days you could get in with a two 'E' offer which is what I was given. most of us were, we pretty much all had straight As though. and you could not tell the state students from the private students when we were there, not academically anyway!

knitted I do feel some guilt, yes...which is why I volunteer at local schools both at classroom level and on the board of governors. I make precious little difference btw to the lives of those children and can't see how my DC attending the school would add to the mix but....it might.

That said. we also live in a huge house in a beautiful area whilst many are in terrible accomodation or homeless.
I am able to put fresh food on the table three times a day whe many are not.
I can pick up my children from school and work entirly flexibly around them, but many many women don't have that freedom.

Where should my guilt start and where should it end?

I think it would be quite unjust and rude of me to say that I "benefited least" from extra facilities! We all knew how lucky we were. I wanted out because I felt it was wrong.

Have to point out as soon as I got "out" and went to a 6th form state my A'Level predictions from 4 A's went down to 2 C's and a D because I am intrinsically a lazy bugger. Having had 10 yrs as a boarder in a boy free environment wasn't, it turned out, the best idea when at 16 I was put in a situation where I had no parental support, boys wherever I looked and no wish whatsoever to do homework or turn up to lessons but instead a strong desire to gallivant in open spaces and attempt to re-create what I thought I had missed out on by going to a private school. I may point out that I was not the norm for my year and most girls I left at my private school probably would have just ignored the outside world and boys

End result = yes, it was privileged but I probably don't have the wherewithal in me to be able to string a coherent sentence together without it. It gave me the freedom to see that I was privileged, didn't make me abuse that in the slightest and helped me learn to the best of my ability. I am confident I would not have got the grades I did without it.

On the other hand, the state school showed me just how durable kids without families have to be to get to 6th form. No other child who had made it that far was living independently of their family. This was a highly regarded comp in Guildford so again, not exactly a rough area.

I'm personally glad I live in a Grammar area, as I can see pros and cons to each side, and yes, I do have a social concious. However, no doubt now it will become unfair because if my child is bright enough to get in I'll be punishing the local comp by not letting them benefit from her wisdom, rather than trying to help her get a better education amongst peers at her level?

My some utter miracle I did well in my exams and I cannot ever recall my A grades being looked upon more favourably because I was from a state school.

where should guilt end? i just think something so fundamental as education that all children need to have should be equal. you just shouldnt be able to buy it, all children should have the same access to education. houses/where you live, home life etc..you cant control but education should be free and the same should be there for every child. at least to give them some common ground basis to work from.

never, it dousnt sound like the school is great and you are paying for it, sounds like the school is laughing. :(