to ask if you use state or private education

[manicinsomniac]

Sorry, I know it's a little rude and personal but I only ask because I think that only 7-8% of the children in the UK are privately educated yet on mumsnet it seems to be massively higher than that which I find interesting.

So, if I'm not being too unreasonable to ask, do/did/will you use private or state education for your child/ren?

Agree with swanriver re sink schools. If more 'middle class' parents start sending their DCs there (often because they don't have a choice), the school will very often improve.

'presumably all of the children who usually ended up at that particular "rough" school all had to go elsewhere.' Not often the case as generally, such schools are undersubscribed. If not, then as swan says, it means those pupils will be distributed around other local schools so there is a good mix of all 'types' in the local schools.

Sometimes it happens a different way though. Our nearest state secondary had a pretty bad rep when we moved into the area; it's the nearest school to a large area of cheap, small housing. Soon after we got here, they recruited a new Head who is, quite frankly, a very scary lady. In 4 years, she has turned the school around, goodness knows how, and it has become known locally for its strict policies and improving results. As a result, many of the parents from the 'nicer' areas are getting their DCs in there and it's going from strength to strength, thanks to the superb management and support from parents. I can only hope the Head stays there for the next 15 years so that my DCs can be lucky enough to go to a school which is not only their catchment school but quickly becoming the 'best' state school in the town. Goes to show you don't always have to live in the most expensive area to get a good local state school.

knittedbreast.

Those are fine sentiments but you are being naive. Tou cannot irradicate inequality simply by abolishing private schools. Why do you care anyway? You like state education and are satisfied with it's standards. What does it matter that other people choose to pay for their childrens' education

knittedbreast- I was responding to suggestion that an A grade from Eton would be considered better than one from a state school. In fact it's generally the opposite e.g this story Your experience may be different, but I doubt your results would be considered 'better' if you'd got them from Eton.

So you want to live in a communist state.

Or is it you want to live in a world were the bright or well motivated have to he held back by everyone else.

ah sorry I meant that to thebestisyettocome!

thebestisyettocome by her admission she wants all education to be equal she admits that private is better because if if were the same as some have tried to say then why would it matter because surly then all parents are doing in making more room in that state schools

But she knows deep down and that private by large is much better

Natto please don't bring the daily mail into serious debate

what do you mean why do i care? all i have said is that i dont agree with the idea of it! you may not be able to eradicate it but it would surely help a lot! it matters to me that there people are able to buy childrens education because i think its wrong. i dont think wanting all children to have a common basis from which to learn from is something that can even be argued against to be honest.

my experience of what natto? youve lost me. i agree that exceptional grades from state school might beat eton but that dousnt explain why the best unis are full of private school kids does it?

natto.

I don't think there is positive discrimination regarding A levels. If there was, universities such as Oxbridge would be full to the brim with kids from Kirkby and Peckham which they most definitely are not.

Oilfin I agree that intervention from above makes all the difference, not just parents making leaps in the dark. All the schools round here are much improved, one school doesn't improve just at the expense of another.
If your child hasn't got a stake in local education, why would you care about the standards and fight for governments to improve them?

knittedbreast. Why do think you should be able to tell somebody how they should spend their money?

my children are going to a "good" (ofsted) State school, but it isn't working so I will send them private next year.

the current school is a good school in a nice area. But as in most schools, there are some serious problems with class size (36 for DS2) and the dreaded disruptive behaviour by children with ADHD, Aspergers and a few violent autistic children (had not heard of that before).

I think it is great if these children can go to a "normal" school, but the school has put no measures in place to actually deal with these children other than being good Christians and hope for the best. So this week, DS2 got strangled and was hurt and upset. The day after the same boy punched and kicked him for eating hsi lunch too slowly (he wanted to play with DS). DS is scared of this boy, and feels responsible for not "upsetting" this child, as then being beaten up is his own fault . Oh, and DS1 got punched in the face for no reason by a boy who loses the plot at times, and randomly lashes out. AND DS2 class has to evacuated at least once every day as one of these violent children throws furniture around and attacks randomly (with scissors if he can get hold of them) . The teacher is often in tears.

And this is a NICE school, I dread to think what sink schools are like.

So I am not intent on turning my children into little toffs, I just want them to go to a school where children with this kind of behaviour (I do know they are in private schools too) are more effectively managed. And where my DC can hopefully find something they are good at (be it sport, music or academic). The school I have my eye on costs 6000 a year (! still a lot, but not as much as some), focusses on the academic side and on small class sizes and specialist teachers. It has no impressive sports grounds. I do not expect my DC to go to Oxbridge, but I DO hope they will do a bit better than they are doing now.

It is hard for me to tell my friends at the State School I am moving my DC private. I guess it is hard because I have a choice they don't have, so it IS unfair. But I am still going to do it. I just cannot face another year of my DC being punchbags of children with issues. Because that's not fair either, is it?!

disillusioned with my State school....

The reason why they are full or private school children and children from outstanding states is because the education is better

Its a well known fact that the sink schools enter their students in the softer subjects are much quicker to label badly behaved students with special needs with some schools having as high as 70% of students with sn

The state system bar a few decent heads is a joke what your calling for is all children to have an equally bad education

Knitted the majority of children are "a common basis from which to learn from" - a state education.
The minority who opt for private simply feel they won't be doing much by way of their children or the state by forfeiting their right to choice.

State school here, but we live in the "better" end of town and the catchment primary school and secondary school are both incredibly good.
We only have 1 private school remotely locally, and if the local schools weren't as good as they are, I'd do whatever it took financially to use the private school. I have no principles when it comes to getting the best for my children!

I have been where you are Chandon.

Remember that you are perfectly entiteld to make that choice and sod anybody who judges you

Oh dear chanson I feel very sorry for your lo mine is going to a outstanding state school but I still have to top up the education

In the state school bad behaviour has to be tolerated but in a private school they will simply be booted out people say private school parents don't care either but unless your sir sugar the fact you are spending £££££ on your childs education Tells me you do

Mrs chav who plops her child in the closest school with out question thats lazy

Or is it you want to live in a world were the bright or well motivated have to he held back by everyone else.

no.

Turn it around.
I want to live in a world where the already disadvantaged dont have to be held back again and disadvantaged in yet another way, competing against and not benefiting the same way wealthy privately schooled children are.

How as a mother can you honestly sit there and say that this is fine for your child but not mine all because you can pay for it? i wonder if once the nhs is cut to shreads but the cuntservatives youl say oh well sorry knittedbreast that your child dousnt have access to medical care but run along baby maypole dont worry you can have it cos i can afford it, and thats right.

we live in a country where all children under 16/18 have access to free health care and all prescriptions and dental care. schooling should be the same, offer the same level of ed to all children and those will fly will fly and those who will fail will fail. why cant your child fly at your local school? i have a theory, and its comes from the mothers i know thats it not actually about the school its a lack of confidence in their own childrens abilities. maybe little jonny wont do brillinatly cos actually hes average (nothing wrong with that) but at least if he goes to pious x or whatever he will be around rich kids, hopefully a bit brighter it might rub off and if it dousnt just the name of his school and contacts met there will help him on his way.

its wrong. sorry. and there is not one single argument that can actually argue successfully against the idea that all children should benefit from the same education as a starting base, because all children are worth this.

going back from my personal sad experience to the REAL DEBATE:

WHY argue that private schools should not exist (because they are better and it is not fair)?! That is warped "socialist" thinking.

would it not be better to argue that state schools should be as good as private ones? That state schools should have smaller class sizes too? And the same results as the private schools?

And then to let those who want to pay for sport, status and wrap around care PAY for a private school, safe in the knowledge that their state school was just as good academically? Because to me that is all that matters.

Private. With a gun to my head I would not have left my child in the playground of the state school we were allocated having been accepted at none of our first 3 choices. I Agree with the premise that an influx of kids with committed parents might in time up the game of a failing school but I am not prepared to gamble with something as critical as education in that way. I lay awake worrying what will happen if we run out if money, but I don't regret our decision.

Mrs chav who plops her child in the closest school with out question thats lazy

thats a really horrible thing to say. most people who cant pay dont have the choice.

I dont think i should be able to tell anyone how they should spend their money at all. they shouldnt have the choice available to them in the first place, it just shouldnt be an option.

Its sad but you don't know what I do with out to have my son tutored Their are parents who are on a low income who smoke if they gave up they could easily afford to have a tutor to but they choose no to.

We don't go on holiday some lower income families are down in the costa del chav every year we choose education I will not fell bad for peoples life choices

Some people choose to have 3 or 4 children I have one I do not thing £100 a months is beyond many families who easily spend
That on fags or drink

knittedbreast.

My children have a father who has paralysed legs. It's not fair but I wouldn't advocate all fathers being rendered paralysed in order to even things up. Where does your argument stop?

chandon i turn it around. why argue that private schools should exist. all schools should have the same resources and there would need to be more of them, we all hope for smaller class sizes and better results, at all schools

those who want to pay for wrap around clubs do already after school clubs etc it needent be private though

Chandon that is terrible. The school is not dealing at all effectively if your child is being hit or in a threatening environment. Surely your child is entitled to feel safe in school? I hope you made your feelings known. The children with issues must be having a dreadful time too. My ds2 (9yrs) is just on the Asperger's cusp, and on the SN register at his primary. And he has hit people when he's been upset in the playground. I would never in a million years expect the school not to address the problem and have some plan of action to deal with the problem. Things have gone quiet for a while, so I'm hoping all is well, but if it wasn't...I too would think the school was rubbish, and want action, intervention to help.
In fact I was just thinking about what to do when he gets to Year 6 and we are applying to Secondary, and wondering how best to give him a school environment where he isn't stressed and wants to hit people