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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Who's BU - my friend, her letting agent or the new tenants?

119 replies

LRDTheFeministDragon · 20/05/2011 13:50

My mate is in the middle of moving house and has a bit of a situation, I think it's not her fault at all but what do you think? And what would you do (bear in mind she is stressed as heck right now, so quick solutions good.)

As I understand it, her letting agent asked/told her and her wife to show around prospective tenants, which they were happy to do. Their place is a little flat with a small paved area at the back where they have put lots of pot plants. And when I say lots, I mean really, really lots - they've got potted fruit trees that go up one wall and are higher than your head, for example. I can understand someone thinking of them as permanent fixtures. But they are all in pots and when mate got the removal van in, they put had them all taken to their new place along with everything else.

New tenants came over to and threw a wobbly because 'the garden has gone' and they think it's stealing. It's not on the inventory, it's all stuff mate payed for herself or got as wedding presents and she obviously does not want to leave it. The letting agent says that it was my mate's responsibility to explain that the pots were not going to stay; my mate reckons that since there is an inventory (it's a furnished let), and the plants aren't on it, she shouldn't have had to do this.

What do you think? Does she had any legal obligations here? She's really stressed because the letting agent is making noises about her being responsible for not representing the property accurately to new tenants. I don't see she has any responsibility here but I'm not sure - and would you be cross if you moved in somewhere and found pots gone from the garden? It is just a bare patch of concrete now and I can see it wouldn't look very nice like that.

OP posts:

nomedoit · 20/05/2011 14:28

The inventory is definitive. End of discussion. No doubt. BUT, I have been a landlord and a tenant in the past, and I think it's important to have a good relationship and not to get too legal/fine print about it especially at the start. If it was me, I would give the tenant a hundred pounds as a goodwill gesture to get some plants. In the long run, that's a good investment given that this person is living in your house.

knittedbreast · 20/05/2011 14:29

LRD im glad to be of help, do remember this so you dont get screwed over or end up doing things you needent had because they think you are an easy target.

also listen to Damsel- what she said is completly correct

Original poster

LRDTheFeministDragon · 20/05/2011 14:29

That's really sweet of you to say, Shouty. She is a bit of a softie. Obviously I don't know exactly what was said but I get the impression this woman has been quite angry and shouty about 'stealing' is very sure she's right. I'm more cross with the lettings agent who must know they're in the wrong but won't say so.

Anyway, I will tell her it makes no difference how big the plants are and how much they looked like a garden - they're hers to take.

OP posts:

DamselInDisguise · 20/05/2011 14:30

Yeah, in general, tenants should assume that anything well-tended actually belongs to the tenants. IME, tenants do not look after gardens well, so if you view a house with beautiful gardens then you won't find any of the stuff there when you move in. If the garden is a disgrace, it'll probably be exactly that way when you move in.

The garden in our current house was just unbelievably awful when we moved in. There were about 5 years of weeds (enormous bramble bushes etc) everywhere. The whole thing was completely unusable. We complained about it and the landlord came and cut everything back, but it's still a wasteland out there (and worse than that a boggy one) so we still can't use it. The house was also absolutely filthy. I'm not exaggerating when I say it took me 10 hours to scrub layers and layers of grease and filth off the tiny galley kitchen. I honestly don't think the previous tenants ever so much as washed a worktop in the 5 years they were here. The landlord had repainted throughout but had left the bathroom sink and bath full of the resulting mess, so I had to clean that up too. I bet the landlord took money off the previous tenants' deposit for cleaning, painting and garden clearing, but they never did it.

In any case, we wrote all this down on our inventory before we returned it, so as to make absolutely clear that it was a disgrace when we got it (and it will definitely be cleaner and the garden better kept when we leave. It couldn't not be).

Original poster

LRDTheFeministDragon · 20/05/2011 14:31

nome - sorry, what?! You think she should give them a hundred pounds? I think she'd rather give them the plants!

OP posts:

Original poster

LRDTheFeministDragon · 20/05/2011 14:32

Oh, re-read that ... nome, as I said, this is not her house. She's a tenant moving out; the new people are tenants moving in.

knitted - it's much appreciated.

OP posts:

hairylights · 20/05/2011 14:33

Not her fault at all -and it absolutely wasn't her responsibility to point out what was or wasn't permanent - that was the letting agents responsibility.

Bumfuzzle · 20/05/2011 14:33

All she needs to say is that she went out, bought them with her money and brought them home and it is in no way stealing to take your own things with you when you move house and they should stop being stupid and not contact her again.

in3minds · 20/05/2011 14:35

rule of thumb (and sorry, didn't read full thread so maybe someone else said this) is that fixtures and fittings is whatever wouldn't fall out if you turned the place upside down (literally). Everything else goes on an inventory.

izzywhizzyletsgetbusy · 20/05/2011 14:36

The flat and the garden/paved area have been returned to the condition they were in when your mate took up the tenancy?

If so, end of as your friend is under no obligation whatsoever to leave behind any item that she purchased for her personal use and/or enjoyment during her tenancy.

As aleady advised, the agent & the new tenants are behaving like pillocks - tell your mate to enjoy her new garden and let these twats get on with it.

HarderToKidnap · 20/05/2011 14:37

If I were your friend I would find this hysterically funny. The new tenants sound like absolute TWATS. Are they also getting upset that your friend has "stolen" the towels, sheets and clothers they expected to find in the flat when they moved in? After all, they were there when they looked round.

I hope your friend isn't having any contact with the new tenants. I would write a short letter simply stating the pot plants were bought and paid for by her and therefore she is entitled to take them with her, and she expects a full refund of the deposit by x date. Do not let her back down here.

Original poster

LRDTheFeministDragon · 20/05/2011 14:39

izzy - yes, it was just bare space when they moved in, as far as I know. Certainly there's no mention of plants on the inventory, and a lot of them she's bought/ been given in the time she's been there - I know the big ones were wedding presents.

I have sent her a (long!) text to say she is doing everything right, needs to put it in writing and not to worry - and certainly not to apologize about it!

OP posts:

PorkChopSter · 20/05/2011 14:40

Dear Letting Agent,
Are you seriously saying that I should have left behind my plants that I bought with my money and which were not on the inventory? But surely if I had, you would have charged me for removing them at the end of the lease?
Yours
IDidNothingWrong

P.S. It is not stealing and you are a twat.
P.P.S Next time, show the new tenants around yourself

Original poster

LRDTheFeministDragon · 20/05/2011 14:41

harder, I feel as if, it if were me I'd be much more able to say they're stupid wankers and tell them to piss off ... that's probably true but I do also kind of see why she was worried. If you'd seen her garden, it is lovely and does have trees as well as little pot plants, so looked quite permanent ... I get the impression she's just being bullied by someone who thinks she and her wife are just young and can be pushed around.

OP posts:

Original poster

LRDTheFeministDragon · 20/05/2011 14:42

at porkchop. Seriously, if it were me, I'd be so tempted! She never will send anything like that though ... the wuss!

OP posts:

willow42 · 20/05/2011 14:44

The letting agent is out of order on three counts:-

S/he should have done the viewings himself/ herself rather than have placed the burden on someone who is untrained
S/he should not be harassing the ex-tenant for her/his own failure to do what the landlord pays them for
S/he should have familiarised him/herself with the new tenants expectations whilst brokering the deal.

Its a bit late in the day to wait for the inventory so its not the new tenants fault - they would have already committed to the deal by the time the inventory was done.

If i were your friend, i would tell the letting agent that its not her problem and that she will not be accepting any further communication from her on this subject.

DamselInDisguise · 20/05/2011 14:44

Wait, did the new tenants come round to your friend's new flat to complain? How exactly did they get her new address?

If this is the case (and I've not read it wrong), and your friend didn't leave a forwarding address with the new tenants, the it may be a good idea to ask the letting agent some very pointed questions about data protection.

ballstoit · 20/05/2011 14:44

I think you're friend is right, I didn't assume anything was being left here that wasn't on the inventory. Some things, like the washing line in the garden were left by previous tenants, but they're not on the inventory. I would suggest that your friend points out that a) if she'd left the pots the tenants would have had to replace any plants which had died and/or pots that got broken and b) she didn't tell them she was taking her clothes, toiletries and towels but they didn't expect them to be left either.

SeymoreButts · 20/05/2011 14:45

As a serial tenant I can't understand the issue here at all. When your friend said "Er, no, they are all pot plants and ours, we didn't dig anything up." That should have been end of debate.

I take it she hasn't had her deposit back yet? Not that it will matter as they're not on the inventory anyway, and she could contest any money the agent tries to retain.

If she has got her deposit back she needs to stop answering the phone to the letting agent, because they are being loonies.

EvenLessNarkyPuffin · 20/05/2011 14:45

The agent is trying to weasel out of a situation created by idiot new tennants and their own laziness. Your friend rented a property and moved her property into it (including her plants). When she left, she took her property with her. The new tennants are fools for assuming that plants in pots would be left and accusing someone of theft for removing their property.

The agents are in a stucky situation because I'll bet the owner had paid them to find new tennants, including the showing, and they want to resolve the situation without admitting to the owner that they didn't actually show the people around, which is how the misunderstanding arose.

Your friend has NO legal obligation to do anything, and if the weasels tried to withhold her deposit they wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

EvenLessNarkyPuffin · 20/05/2011 14:47

Just read that they came to her house??? She should tell them that she will contact the police.

sausagesandmarmelade · 20/05/2011 14:48

I'm no expert but I would have thought the onus would be on the landlord or letting agency to explain the situation...and what was included.

I don't think your friend should worry about this at all.

Original poster

LRDTheFeministDragon · 20/05/2011 14:49

Damsel - the new people came over to do some measuring up, which was all agreed - she's meant to be out by the end of tomorrow and I think they're moving in pretty much as soon as she's cleared out. Apparently the woman decided to have a shouting match in my friend's kitchen ... nice lady, eh?

seymore - she hasn't had the deposit back, she's not officially moved out yet. But I'm going to get her to take pictures of the back yard as it is now to show them it's not a mess or anything, just empty.

OP posts:

EvenLessNarkyPuffin · 20/05/2011 14:50

In fact, if I were her, I would suggest to the agents that I was going to bypass them and talk to the owner directly. The owners details should be on the contract she signed. The owner should know how the agents have handled the whole situation.

DamselInDisguise · 20/05/2011 14:53

She was absolutely not obliged to let the new tenants in even if they wanted to measure up or whatever. So it was pretty cheeky of them to come round at all, but then to start shouting at her in her own flat is outrageous.

They are clearly arseholes as well as twats.

As for the letting agent, they're usually arseholes too. It's always a pain in the arse getting your deposit back. There shouldn't be a problem though (regardless of whether the new tenant is unhappy or not) since she's leaving it in the state she got it (i.e. bare).

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