Who's BU - my friend, her letting agent or the new tenants?

[LRDTheFeministDragon]

My mate is in the middle of moving house and has a bit of a situation, I think it's not her fault at all but what do you think? And what would you do (bear in mind she is stressed as heck right now, so quick solutions good.)

As I understand it, her letting agent asked/told her and her wife to show around prospective tenants, which they were happy to do. Their place is a little flat with a small paved area at the back where they have put lots of pot plants. And when I say lots, I mean really, really lots - they've got potted fruit trees that go up one wall and are higher than your head, for example. I can understand someone thinking of them as permanent fixtures. But they are all in pots and when mate got the removal van in, they put had them all taken to their new place along with everything else.

New tenants came over to and threw a wobbly because 'the garden has gone' and they think it's stealing. It's not on the inventory, it's all stuff mate payed for herself or got as wedding presents and she obviously does not want to leave it. The letting agent says that it was my mate's responsibility to explain that the pots were not going to stay; my mate reckons that since there is an inventory (it's a furnished let), and the plants aren't on it, she shouldn't have had to do this.

What do you think? Does she had any legal obligations here? She's really stressed because the letting agent is making noises about her being responsible for not representing the property accurately to new tenants. I don't see she has any responsibility here but I'm not sure - and would you be cross if you moved in somewhere and found pots gone from the garden? It is just a bare patch of concrete now and I can see it wouldn't look very nice like that.

[theyoungvisiter]

oh fair enough.

Still not the friend's fault.

[HerHissyness]

No, inventory wouldn't necessary be offered at contract signing. Only at check in for me.

[theyoungvisiter]

There was a fat man lying on the sofa of the last flat I looked around. I'm bloody glad HE wasn't still there when we moved in - even though he definitely looked like a fixture and would have been v hard to move.

Idiot letting agent - of course it's not your friend's fault. As others have said, the rule of thumb is anything in the soil is a fixture and anything in pots is moveable. And usually the inventory is presented along with the lease so the tenants absolutely DID have a chance to check it when they signed.

[HerHissyness]

I am an inventory clerk.

If the inventory doesn't show something, it does not exist. If I miss off a defect or damage to a property, it can rarely be charged for.

Her inventory is apparently correct in that it doesn't state anything in the courtyard.

If an inventory clerk does the make for a property, they ask the landlord what is and is not included in the rental property, so if garden furniture was present that the landlord was not leaving behind it would not be on the inventory, and therefore would not be part of the rental.

Incidentally, if I am conducting a check out and the tenant has left behind items they do not need without asking the permission of the landlord, or agreeing with the new tenant to take them on, there could be a deduction to the deposit for removal.

Putting the issue of the agent not showing prospective tenants around to one side for a moment, the particular letting agent is too much at fault, having only said as far as I know, it's staying as is. He/She was wrong, he/she should have checked, but as the plants are not part of the rental, there is little he can do, short of suggest the new tenant makes a reasonable cash offer to buy the plants from the outgoing tenant.

The real arse in all of this is the new tenant, ONE for not asking in the first place, and TWO for being nasty and threatening about it. Mark my words, that tenant will cause trouble for the LA and the Landlord, it'd be better to refuse them the tenancy if at all possible. They are going to be trouble.

There is no need for this to be a deduction to your friend, if any deductions are made, it needs to go to arbitration and they will look at the inventory at check in, the inventory at check out and clearly see that there is no mention of pots and that they are the property of the tenant.

If in doubt, always got to the CAB, they are AWESOME as are the TDS.

[LRDTheFeministDragon]

Thanks everyone. I'll tell her about raising a dispute if need be - she did take photos (we knew to do that from previous, erm, interesting tactics from lettings agencies), and her deposit will be protected as she's only been there a few years.

I have to say, I would feel much more sorry for the new tenants if the woman hadn't been such a bitch.

I'll try to remember to update when I hear from her, but I doubt it'll be for a little while, she's only just given the keys back. Nothing exciting happened today ... doubt the agent's is open on Saturday.

I was really glad of all the quick advice, thanks so much.

[StealthPolarBear]

just getting on this thread for any further updates...nothing to actually add.

[emptyshell]

They won't have a leg to stand on when it comes to trying to hold the deposit... I'm pretty sure a potted sanctuary of green tranquility wasn't on the check-in inventory.

Basically they decided to have an easy life getting your friend to do viewings - this has backfired and they're left with a pissed off new tenant. I'd be complaining that she was put in the position of the screaming match anyway (if they're a member of a professional associatin and she feels up to it- worth complaning to them... sometimes if you're still renting you don't want to rock the boat too much though), and I might well be dropping the landlord a letter saying what the letting agent is taking his money for... fuck all being the technical term there!

If they try to take deposit off her - she can dispute this via whichever scheme the deposit's in (if it's not protected she can sue for three times the deposit I believe) and they'll basically be buggered if it's gone down as it sounds.

So basically:

Friend = fine (I had a garden in pots in my old rented house - was buggered if I was doing the LL's garden for him to profit from since he was a twat)
New Tenant = raging bitch, idiotic to assume pot plants would be staying
Letting Agent = lazy waste of space wanting money for doing fuck all (so like most of 'em really)

[Firawla]

that is ridiculous, the agency and new tenants both partly at fault i think but not your friend!! if they try to take off deposit for that i think the protection scheme will definitely go in your friends favour and give the money back to her. what a joke.. really pathetic
as for the new tenants if they are that bothered go and buy their own plants! the 'garden' has not been removed as that refers to the space itself. it's hardly a big deal is it

[mybrainsthinkingfuckyou]

www.depositprotection.com/

[mybrainsthinkingfuckyou]

Hello OP

I have been a tenant. I am a landlord. I use a letting agent.

The tenants were told by letting agent garden would stay as seen.

The landlord usually pays the letting agent a flat fee - three hundred quid - for advertising showing tenants around and organising the lease/invoice as well as 10%+VAT of the rent each month.

The tenant usually pays the letting agent a flat fee - usually a week's rent - for services rendered as well as a month's refundable deposit.

The letting agent will not want to lose their client i.e. the landlord nor necessarily the goodwill of the new tenant.

The owner will not want to pay for new plants.

Quite clearly then...the letting agent will have a choice of three things.

1. They lose all or part of their finder's fee on this one and give the tenant compensation/money to redec the yard.
   
2. They tell new tenants it wasn't in writing and they have to suck it up as all verbal promises hearsay/hope the tenants will back down.
   
3. They try their luck in the future by telling owner would be in his/her interests to have plants they have already bought to shut up the tenant/cover their tracks and reclaim monies from owner. Owner will say no as plants would need to be looked after and wasted outlay.
   

Or the agent will try and find faults with your friend to withdraw amounts from the protected deposit e.g. for cleaning
that they use to offset against plants - none of which sound like they can be replaced at Homebase.

I would guess the agency will tell tenants to suck it, knowing worst case scenario is that they give notice in 6 months but unlikely to do much now due to legal costs/nothing written and it being a faff to move in the first place.

None of which has anything to do with your friend.
I do feel sorry for the tenants.
I also feel sorry for the owner.
The letting agent is in the wrong.
The tenants should ask for their services fee refunded.
The owner will be told none of what has gone on.
Your friend makes sure she leaves the house in good conditionTAKING PHOTOS/FOOTAGE as evidence she did so or a joint walkaround with witnesses. But if keys in already may be too late. Either way she disputes any claim on the deposit if not directly caused by her/reasonable - There
are as stated by another poster set guidelines that the agency must adhere to which protect the tenant (imho often more than the landlord HASTENING TO ADD i AM A LOVELY ONE ;-)

[WillieWaggledagger]

yes our landlord a couple of years ago witheld £30 from the deposit for 'administration' (i know it was only £30 but still, that is not what a deposit is for). we raised a dispute and within a week he had paid up

[Gooseberrybushes]

yes raise a dispute with the TDSthey are FAB

[Lucyinthepie]

OK, important. Unless your friend has lived there for some years, her deposit will be lodged with the Tenant Deposit Scheme and she will have a copy of the registration document. I can't remember what the date was when this became law, but it won't take a minute for your friend to check. If they have failed to lodge the deposit and give her a copy of the documentation they have broken the law.
It is extremely difficult for a landlord or their agents to withold any portion of a deposit without very good evidence to support their action. They don't hold the deposit, the TDS do.
So get your friend to either dig out the document giving details of where her deposit is lodged, or to check on the Net to make sure that she comes within the dates when this became law. The proceed accordingly. Either contact the company and notify them that she is expecting the agents to try to withhold some deposit and ask them for advice. Or contact the agents and ask them for a copy of the legal document. If in doubt contact CAB. There are fines for not lodging a deposit and compensation payments made to tenants.
The agents were trying their luck by the way.

[LRDTheFeministDragon]

nome - don't worry, it's easily done, I realized almost as soon as I posted what you were thinking. I should have written a clearer OP.

[nomedoit]

Sorry, I didn't read that properly and thought she was the owner in which case it would be more a question of getting off on the right foot whoever was to blame.

[WillieWaggledagger]

if they take anything off the deposit for the bloody plants she should raise a dispute with the deposit company

[CocktailQueen]

Lettign agent is crap, as are new tenants. Not your friend's problem! Arses, the lot of them.

[heleninahandcart]

The letting agent is probably wrong. When you buy and sell, anything not fixed goes with you! Plants in the ground - stay unless the owner specifies otherwise and lists them. Plants in pots - go. I can't see why it would be so different for a letting situation.

The new tenants should have checked if they were that bothered. The letting agency should have explained.

Nothing to do with your friend. She brought the plants in, she takes them out. She took her clothes with her out of the wardrobe didn't she?

[LRDTheFeministDragon]

Hi everyone, thanks so much for all the responses. Just thought I'd update - heard from her a couple of hours ago, turns out I was mistaken about the day she needed to move out by, it was 5pm today not 5pm tomorrow, so she's been busy going back and forth between the old place and the new place. Anyway, she emailed the lettings agent and said pretty much what several of you recommended. From what they say and what the tenant says, it seems as if one of them told the new tenant the 'garden' of the property would be kept as it was, but was obviously thinking of a totally different place as they also say a backyard doesn't count as a garden. So they sound pretty useless, all told, but I guess it explains why the new tenant was such a bitch. Anyway, problem is in the lettings agents' hands now as she's given the keys back and done. Hopefully she'll still get her deposit back.

I'm really grateful to you for all the advice - it was great as she didn't have time to sort it and it could have been a huge hassle. Another fine result for MN!

[chipmonkey]

I am a landlord and would be furious if my letting agent had allowed this to happen. I pay my letting agent good money to show people around and manage the property and would be very annoyed indeed if he didn't do his job and then tried to blame the former tenants in a dispute.

Your friend has nothing to worry about and is being far too nice.

[Mitzimaybe]

Damsel you're absolutely right; I was stupidly talking about when you buy somewhere.

If the plants were so important to the prospective tenants, they should have asked about them! If they had asked, and she had said they were staying, then taken them, that would be a whole different situation. But she wasn't asked.

[WillieWaggledagger]

how utterly mad

there were three pots with plants in when we moved into to our rented house (one a jasmine going up a trellis). we've bought more pots and will take those with us. the ones already here we will leave

get your pal to chant 'not my fucking problem, not my fucking problem... etc'

[fivegomadindorset]

Maybe she should ask them what else they would like of her wedding presents, seriously.

YOur poor friend, I would never expect potplants to stay in a tenanted house.

[JanMorrow]

They want her to leave them her wedding presents? Oh they might as well take the matching china then! How about the toaster?

Fucking dickheads. Fair enough be a bit miffed but to accuse someone of stealing? Do me a favour! She needs to just put it from her mind and ignore them entirely.

[MrsSnow]

Its quite clear the plants are in pots and therefore removable. If your friend had dug up the garden (from the ground) then that would have been different.

The agent is just being useless. If they were doing their jobs properly they would have done the viewing and explained all.