Who's BU - my friend, her letting agent or the new tenants?

[LRDTheFeministDragon]

My mate is in the middle of moving house and has a bit of a situation, I think it's not her fault at all but what do you think? And what would you do (bear in mind she is stressed as heck right now, so quick solutions good.)

As I understand it, her letting agent asked/told her and her wife to show around prospective tenants, which they were happy to do. Their place is a little flat with a small paved area at the back where they have put lots of pot plants. And when I say lots, I mean really, really lots - they've got potted fruit trees that go up one wall and are higher than your head, for example. I can understand someone thinking of them as permanent fixtures. But they are all in pots and when mate got the removal van in, they put had them all taken to their new place along with everything else.

New tenants came over to and threw a wobbly because 'the garden has gone' and they think it's stealing. It's not on the inventory, it's all stuff mate payed for herself or got as wedding presents and she obviously does not want to leave it. The letting agent says that it was my mate's responsibility to explain that the pots were not going to stay; my mate reckons that since there is an inventory (it's a furnished let), and the plants aren't on it, she shouldn't have had to do this.

What do you think? Does she had any legal obligations here? She's really stressed because the letting agent is making noises about her being responsible for not representing the property accurately to new tenants. I don't see she has any responsibility here but I'm not sure - and would you be cross if you moved in somewhere and found pots gone from the garden? It is just a bare patch of concrete now and I can see it wouldn't look very nice like that.

[Gooseberrybushes]

gawd it's not even their flat?!!!!!!!!

letting agent = twat

[TheVisitor]

They're her pots. It's the letting agency's responsibility. They're being an arse and so are the new tenants.

[LRDTheFeministDragon]

Ooh, is that true knitted? Good to know - though I'm surprised!

[bananamonkey]

It's not stealing if they are her pots and plants! New tenants are weirdos. That's like complaining that the knickers that were on the radiator* when they looked round hadn't been left. They agents are just trying to deflect.

• not that anyone would do that

[Gooseberrybushes]

actually I don't really blame the tenants that much

[snice]

crappy letting agent is trying to find someone else to blame for his or her fuck up-if they can't be bothered to do their own viewings then frankly they deserve everything they get.

[Gooseberrybushes]

in fact now I know they were showing around someone else's flat for someone else, the letting agent, she should just tell them all to sling their hook and stop bothering her

twat agent

[Gooseberrybushes]

exaclty snice

[RitaMorgan]

If they are tenants, and were doing the letting agents a favour by showing the new tenants round, then it is wholly the letting agents responsibility.

It cannot possibly be "stealing" to take your own property with you when you move out of rented accomodation.

Your friend has no responsibility for the tenancy agreement between the new tenants and the agents.

[GrendelsMum]

It's clearly the agent's fault, and they're trying to blame your friend in order to pass the buck. They should have shown round the prospective tenants in the first place, they were too lazy to, and now they're suffering the penalty. They're thinking that the new tenant is going to complain to the landlord and they will be in the shit.

I would advise your friend to write a letter saying that she does not take responsibility for the misapprehension of the new tenant, and that any further phone calls from the letting agent will be construed as harassment.

Then I would refuse to take any more phonecalls on the matter - simply say 'I am not taking phonecalls on this matter' and put the phone down.

The new tenants were foolish not to realise that plants in pots go with the tenants, but I expect that it's their first place. We certainly took all our pots last time I moved house (plus some of the rarer garden plants, all of which were replaced by less expensive, lower maintenance plants).

[LRDTheFeministDragon]

Well, I think the issue is its not really very like the knickers on radiator/bubble bath (though that did make me grin). There are at least two pots that are really huge and heavy - I doubt I could lift them myself - so they do look quite solid, if that makes sense. OTOH, I'm thinking that their sofa is also pretty big and heavy, and that certainly went! She's feeling guilty which is daft imo.

[WassaAxolotlEgg]

"The new tenant was saying that it is stealing and you wouldn't expect to rent somewhere and find that plants had been dug up from the garden - I have no idea (never rented somewhere with a garden myself), but I guess I would feel differently about that, so I did wonder. "

Actually, I would expect exactly that. When I was a child, my mother planted a lovely herb collection in the gardens of houses we rented. When we moved, she would take most of them with her, and restore the beds to their previous state.

[onehellofaride]

This is right in terms of buying/selling property however I think it should be the same re renting. they are not fixtures as (I presume) they were only attached to the ground by their own weight also the purpose of the attachment should be considered i.e. to look good. As they are in pots and weren't on the inventry she had no obligation to leave them. They belong to your friend.

[onehellofaride]

trees planted in the garden would probably be considered to be fixtures and would therefore have to be left unless there was a prior agreement

[animula]

MaryZ - my aunt used to do that when she moved. I remember her inviting us over when she sold one house, and her digging up lots of plants for my mother. There wasn't enough room in her new garden for all her old plants, and she wasn't leaving them behind!

i was a bit

[LRDTheFeministDragon]

Grendels - I like 'I am not taking phonecalls'! Knowing her, she will be pouring out her explanation on the phone and assuming they'll eventually smile and nod. I'm a cynic, myself.

All I can remember about selling houses is when my granny's house was sold my mum specifically got written permission from the new owner to take some of the garden plants - I had no idea what the normal situation was though, as that was an odd sale in lots of ways.

I don't think this is teh new tenants' first place, btw, I think they're middle-aged.

[knittedbreast]

no you see if you move into a house and you add certain plants in the ground whilst you are there you can take them with you because they are not mentioned in the inventory because they were not there when you moved in. you brought them, you take them.

[ShoutyHamster]

What?

How totally ridiculous.

The plants are her property. In her pots bought by her. Just like her sofa (which was also heavy, and big, and there when they looked round...)

The letting agent supplies the inventory - the tenants look at it, this handy little list of what belongs to the flat and should therefore be there when they move in - and they take note of it, and sign it. They obviously did not do this.

She needs to phone the agent and make it clear that it is not, and never was, her responsibility to do their job for them. She showed them around the flat as a favour. Any questions that the tenants had about the tenancy such as the furniture should have been directed at the agents. She should say that she takes a very dim view of their harrassment of her, and will take legal action if it continues.

I've never heard of anything so daft!!

[DamselInDisguise]

As they weren't supplied by the landlord, then the previous tenants have every right to take them.

Indeed, most rental agreement explicitly state that you should return the house/flat in the same condition you got it. If she had left the pots, the letting agent/landlord could have reduced her deposit to cover the cost of 'removing' them and returning the garden to its bare (and ugly) state.

[ShoutyHamster]

Oh, and anything they say should just be countered with


'But my plants were not on your inventory. Did you not supply them with the inventory? You did? Then the problem is...?'

Repeat ad infinitum.

[LRDTheFeministDragon]

Thanks knitted - will remember that for the (very unlikely) event of me ever renting or buying somewhere with a garden!

It sounds from this thread as if it is all much more simple that I was worried it might be. I think the fact they were such big plants maybe made the new tenants assume they couldn't be moved, but I will reassure her she did the right thing (and in practical terms, I'd be gutted to see her having to hire something to move them back now!).

[DamselInDisguise]

It's totally different in the case of selling a property with a garden. One of the things you are selling on is the garden, so it's not unreasonable for the new owners to expect the plants they have bought to be there when they move in (unless its been previously agreed that they are not actually buying those plants).

When renting, you move into a property in a particular condition, live there, and then move out leaving it as you got it. If the garden was a barren wasteland when you moved in, you are perfectly entitled to remove any plants you've planted and take them with you, thus leaving a barren wasteland just like you got when you moved in. It doesn't matter if the new tenants are upset or annoyed about this, as it is not your problem or responsibility.

[NorbertDentressangle]

"The letting agent says that it was my mate's responsibility to explain that the pots were not going to stay" -the letting agents are taking the piss. They have been paid to market and manage this property, it is their responsibility to go over the contract/inventory with new tenants and to be clear about conditions and what is/is not included.

Also the new tenants sound very dim naive to think that well-tended plants in pots would be included.

[ShoutyHamster]

No! Don't let her even THINK of moving them back.

They belong to her. As does her sofa. If they'd said they'd assumed the sofa belonged to the flat, would she just give it to them? No!

There's absolutely no difference!

I know your friend is upset by this which is awful, I really feel for her - but honestly, she should be laughing down the phone at this. It's utterly mad.