to think that too many people rely on the Tax Credits for their income.

[IdRatherBeInBed]

Bit of background first

My sister and her boyfriend has got back together after they split up last year. She was then claiming income support.

He has moved back in with her so her benefits have all stopped. she works 13.5 hours a week, he works over 30 hours. They earn £17k between them. Which lets be honest in this climate is not alot of money.

Shes just called Tax Credits to let them know hes moved back in and wanted to know what she would be entitled to WTC wise. Due to her HB/CTB stopping. Her rent is £500 per month, CT £100 per month. She is entitled to £4.90 per week.

I am sad for her because after all rent, ct, bills have gone out shes isnt left with anything. her food bill for the month has had to be cut to £200 per month. She has a car on finance (through my dad) which is shagging her tbh due to engine size (she got it when still with partner before splitting up and he had to get a 1.8 sport^^) her insurance with just her on it is £115p/m. - (she isnt 25 yet)

Anyway she called them last week to ask how much she could be entitled to, they told her £80 per week so she was like
"ooh we can afford this, we can afford that" so went out and spent £100 on clothes for her, him and nephew. I told her not to rely on what they have said because it could be wrong but she wouldn't listen and was saying 'it will be right'. Today she rings me bollocking me as to why she is only entitled to £4.90 per week.

FFS why bollock me - i dont work for them.

WIHBU to have said to her 'cancel your £24p/m gym membership, get rid of the car or change it if you can, stop getting things from catalogues that you cant pay for and get your arse of a boyfriend to stop spending money you don't have on shit like £5.50 magazines each week, stop getting shit for the garden you dont need, you don't need so many fucking flowery things to make a garden look nice.

Or what i come across as a complete and utter bitch.

She is one of these who says "oh i have no money" but yet has enough for new clothes or go out for a meal, or takeaway"

oh and that was meant to be:

Anyone who misses the wink and then kicks off should look up the definition of joke, as in gently jesting. TIA

Also TCS cover childcare most people couldnt work without childcare tax credits and so wouldnt be able to support themselves.

I'm giggling a bit at those who are coming onto the thread looking for a political row and just having to slink off as no one is that interested in the politics of it all.

Whenever the subject of tax credits crop up, the thread generally goes this way.

You have those who claim they couldn't possibly live without them, don't want to upset the gravy train and don't want to consider any alternatives in case it risks what they currently get.

And those like me who see tax credits as a well meaning but fundamentally flawed system.

What does make me laugh are those who claim they couldn't possibly live without TC's. How did the nation survive prior to 2003 then? Oh yes, we cut our cloths accordingly. What they mean is "We couldn't possibly live (with our same standard of living) without tax credits.

That's not entirely right niceguy is it?

Prior to 2003 we'd have received family credit.

Alternatives? Universal Credit ahs some plus points- taking away disabled famillies the concept of a cap is right I think, it makes snese that people who work shoudl be guaranteed more income: I actively applaud the concept of flexibility that emans people who start work in say July will nto be penalised, and allows for flexi workers / agency work.

However the possible removal of people with autism and MH difficulties (via fewer qualifying criteria for PIP- specifically people who need 24/7 supervision due to behaviour or MH no longer qualifying for help) will mean more famillies with a disability will face the cap. I cannot applaud that: I actively lament that. It is appalling.

I don't for a minute suggest labour would revoke the changes.

I do think it's awful. Cruel, even.

niceguy if it was prior to 2003 I would still be losing weight because that would be me cutting my cloth accordingly. currently I wouldn't be living properly without TC but if you had read my post I DO NOT WANT THEM I WANT A JOB AND I USE SOME OF THE MONEY TO FUND MY JOB HUNTING.

Yes I know I am scum, greed pathetic and ignorant I don't need smug people reminding me of that.

Oh and BTW I don't use it to fund a big house. I live in a one bed flat and I sleep in the living room though I am sure you would rather I slept in the street. Though you really should think about it. How would that help me find work.

niceguy or anyone :) I was going to start a post about the universal tax credit idea but ,do you have any views or opinions ?

I am in the US , I can't find out much by googling maybe it is too early ?
:)

Doley mine in my last post

On it's own: OK

In conjunction with other changes to system: seriously scary

Government ahve recently conformed that the disability payment amde to DAL famillies under TCs will be more than halved under UC which seems a little- horrible. The current status of carer's allowance is (and ahs been for a while) ' we don't know what to do with it'

So some benefits but some major concerns also

Thanks Peachy ...time will tell I guess ?

One thing that worries me though,on a minimum wage just taking less tax is not going to help much ...it is still not a living wage anywhere in the country .

I think all families on low income will still need help :)

Niceguy places to live where a lot, lot cheaper in 2003 in my area. The tax credits I get now mean I can have childcare so I can go to work else it would be impossible to live on one wage.

She's living way beyond hr means . Food bill reduced to £200 per month on joint income of only £17k? Gym membership and a sports car!??? Good grief.

Doley, another thread on UC would be good but in short in theory I prefer it over TC's. The devil is in the details of course and I am assuming that the govt dont do anything sneaky like what peachy's put about reducing payments.

Xstitch, i don't think you are scum. I just think too many people expect the govt to make up the shortfall nowadays between outgoings and their income. Whereas prior to 2003, we lived to what we had. So for example, my GF and I (and our baby) lived with my parents because we couldn't afford our own place. Tax credits werent around then to pay for our childcare, nor give us a hefty sum back per month. That's what I mean by cutting cloth accordingly.

I don't mean everyone should have to live like that, it wasn't easy but the govt borrowing money to give it back is not a sustainable model for the long term.

What if there is no chance of being able to live with your parents as they dont have any room?

Also I bought my own place down south on a wage of 12k in 2003 you couldnt do that now.

The thing is niceguy, that the figures DO NOT ADD UP. It's like a blindness, it's not about "cutting the cloth" if there is simply not enough cloth.

Chit chatting about ideology and heavy reliance on the state is just a way of sticking your fingers in your ears and blindfolding yourself.

I note that no one has been able to suggest any "cloth cutting" for any of the examples of low wage family incomes.

You are not getting it are you niceguy I don't expect the Government to make up the short fall. I WANT TO WORK.

I do cut my cloth as small as possible and before getting tax credits I cut my cloth accordingly I didn't eat some days and I was officially homeless sodding down on a sofa.

My current place is THE cheapest rental in my town the only thing cheaper is a cardboard fucking box.

The only food cheaper that the food I am eating is no food at all.

It is cold today, I would like the heating on but I won't turn it on because I know I can't afford it. Being poor doesn't automatically mean stupid.

I spend some money on job hunting, can that really be considered irresponsible.

What else would you like me to cut from my ridiculously extravagant lifestyle that I supposedly expect the Government to fund.

I think that tax credits should be done away with and the savings made from it should be used to cut income tax for the lowest earners. Roll the special aspects such as disability element into the new universal credit.

I will be significantly worse off under the new system - especially if they do not recognise my son's autism. I use the tax credits to work part time topped up by his DLA.
This allows me to take him too and from school and deal with any issues immediately. His extra needs (needs one to one support) mean I cannot just stick him into childcare after school while I work.
I have to reapply for DLA next year - am guessing that writing "still autistic" on it and sending it back won't cut muster. I am fully prepared for them to turn me down this time as it seems to be more and more the case that to get DLA now you have to fight harder than ever.
If he had normal needs it would be easier but he doesn't.
He was born in 2002 and we got "Family Credit" so am guessing similar system to Tax Credits.
Oh and Niceguy - if the Tax Credits were a bribe to keep people voting Labour then I guess it's backfired spectacularly. Actually what it DID do was bring more children OUT of poverty since the 1940s - not a bad feat.
And please don't tell me that financially this country would be any better off if it had had a Tory Govt - it wouldn't - worldwide recession and all that.

Tax Credits a bribe to vote Labour?

Tax Credits as a lifestyle choice?

Pile of shite.

It might be hard for people who have a certain type of mindset to understand but people do vote from principle (albeit principles you may not agree with) and not mere self interest.

Besides, I seem to recall Labour getting elected with a landslide before tax credits were a glint in Gordon Browns eye.

No mind.

Secondcoming - you will be right. Plus on 17K (presuming they aren't both earning that much), they won't be getting a huge amount of tax credits anyway. Also, on 17k you don't get much HB or any CTB.

Thesecondcoming I agree, like I said, we have a family income of £40K before tax and we'd be hard pushed to maintain a gym membership or spend £200+ on food per month. We certainly wouldn't be able to do it on £17K, no way.

I think Coco has left the thread now, but Coco, if you come back can you just answer one question, just so I can understand where you are coming from?

Do you understand that in some circumstances people are stuck in dead end jobs, on minimum wage and have no choice but to be dependent on TC?

I get that you went back to do your PGCE, I'm a teacher too, but no everybody has that type of opportunity to improve their lot in life, depending on circumstances, qualifications etc.

Because whilst I agree with you that if you can budget your life without TC then you absolutely should. Like I said, we got a letter recently saying we couldn't have them anymore, 2 weeks later that was it, no more TC for us. Good job we weren't relying on them for anything.

I just want to know if you accept that for some people, living on the poverty line, they are what keeps them afloat and that they cannot choose to live without them, like you and I thankfully can. Its just that having read your posts I'm not sure if you can see the distinction about choice.

Did I miss the bit where the OP mentioned her sister had a child/children?

Its been over 2 hours now and nobody has answered my question. What am I supposed to cut from my apparently greedy and overly extravagant lifestyle?

Yy flippinada.

I don't vote based soley on my own personal circumstances, or I'd probably be voting Monster Raving Loony. Ha ha HA HA HA sorry, what a terrible joke. I think that the recognition that people have a harder life than me, through no fault of their own, is just actually a HUMAN emotion as opposed to a party political one.

Right sorry i havent replied sooner.

Right what i didnt mean in the title is 'Why do people rely on it'

I rely on mine, if i didnt i would be up shit creek without a paddle.

What should have made sure it was aimed at my OP.

Why has my sister relied on a primarily figure rather than a set in stone one.

She was told 2 weeks ago that she would get £80 per week so she was buzzing telling me she would be better off, she could do this, etc etc but yet when BF moved in, rang them and told them, she will only recieve £4.90 per month. Yet in the mean time has spent all her wage on shite, not got the money for her car payment/insurance etc etc so now is taking it out on me by shouting at me

i rely on my TC each week. i didnt mean it like that.