to say nothing to a boy's parents about his behaviour?

[pingu2209]

He is only 8 - as is my ds. They are friends in school but have an uneasy friendship. I am a SAHM and his mum works so every few weeks I look after the boy so she can attend a meeting/training etc.

Over a period of 9 months the boy has been really horrible to my ds, who has SEN. My son's SEN mean he is frustrating to deal with and he is at least 1-2 years behind academically. When I have looked after him (sometimes over night) so his mum can do the odd late night for work, he speaks to my ds with utter contempt, regularly saying how much better he is at everything than my ds. He is also rude to me.

About 6 months ago he attacked my ds in the lunch queue (biting, hitting, kicking) Both his parents and I were called in. The boy was sent home for the rest of the day, and I had to try and calm my ds down (he becomes hysterical, which is part of his SEN). The mum was so apologetic and was really upset so I said, never mind, lets just move on.

Things came to a head about 3 months ago when he made all 3 of my dc cry when he came over. In fact he nearly made me cry as he was so horrible - I can't say what he said as I don't want anyone to recognise me on here.

I know I should have spoken to his mother about her son's behaviour but I just can't. It would be really really difficult.

Instead I went to the school, who although can't do anything about out of school incidents, they said that he have seen the boy be nasty to my ds in school a few times. Whilst they didn't say so, I think that the boy is nasty to other children as well. The school decided that this boy's behaviour was an issue generally and they would watch him.

I heard no more about it, but decided to keep the boy at very long arms length.

2 nights ago the mum asked me if she could speak to me about her ds. Deep breath in! She wanted advice! She said that there is now a daily communication between the school and her about her ds behaviour. She said she didn't like the teacher and felt she was picking on her ds. I said nothing. She said she had gone to the head to complain but the head had said that the teacher was really experienced and that her ds' behaviour did require alteration because he was upsetting a few of his friends.

I realise this was my prime opportunity to say, yes I know, he has done it to my ds, but I bottled it again. I also think I have let things go for so long that for me to list all that her ds has done/said, she would be really angry at me for not telling her.

Today, my ds came home and said that the boy had hit him again in the playground and the boy had been given a 10 minute detention, again.

Has the other boy heard 'give him back' somewhere else? Doesn't seem a typicial 7yr old, thing to say

Lemonpuff, I think he meant at in terms of giving a parcel back, rather than an abortion. It was still horrible though.

Look I feel for you a little bit but:

You do not have to agree to look after this child. You are horribly worried about the impact of this childs bullying (correctly so) on your own son, but not so much that finding him another rugby group is impossble.

This child clearly feels angry and unhappy and honestly, doesnt want to be at your house. So tell his mother the truth. She can do the same as the rest of us and pay for childcare.

This child is not a monster - he is being a little shit but no worse then probably my own at times (he has adhd just to make it clear) and certainly some others I have seen when they dont want to be at my house.

You are afraid of telling his mother in case she gets angry over something she already knows about. You are afraid of telling his father about it in case he stops your son playing rugby. SO CHANGE RUGBY GROUPS and so what if they are angry. What is the worst that can happen to you and why are you so afraid to stand up for the rights of your own children? I think you are scared of their anger because you are angry at yourself and projecting. This situation is bad for you all. End it now.

PS. I apologise if I seem harsh but if this was going on with my boy and I had no idea I would be mortified and perhaps she needs the kick to see all is definitely not right with her boy before it gets too late - why dont you look at it as being hard to be kind.

Madam that is another really good piece of advice - op would that work for you?

Yes, I think you let it go too far. You say you look after this boy regularly, and I think you should have set boundaries for this boy in your house. I find it quite upsetting that you let him be rude and horrible to all your DCs and to yourself - that's just not on. Do you accept such behaviour from your own children, propably not. If you don't succeed, then you should tell the mum and stop him coming round.

My DS (6) has a friend who can get quite agressive and wild and then throws things with force when he doesn't want them anymore, he ignores me, and he broke one of DS's toys (nothing fancy) but denied it. I mentioned it to mum but she thought her DS usually tells the truth. At first, I made allowances as he was a guest, but I then decided that I don't want DS to think that such unsociable behaviour was OK and I don't want to be unfair to DS. So I have decided my house, my rules for all.

I know you are all right. I am very worried about the fact I have left it so long. I think too long, to actually tell the parents now. I would rather do everything to stop him from coming over again and not have to deal with it.

I do wonder if he may have ADHD Prettyfly. My neice (age 9) has it and there are similarities. He is very figity and won't stay still at all. I have 2 boys so I know that it is a lot more figity than a normal boy.

When I went into school to calm my ds over the lunch hall attack, a TA told me (which she shouldn't) that the boy was put forward for additional support for socialising because he found it hard to share and take turns and other social aspects. The school thought it was because he was an only child. However, the mum asked the school to stop the additinoal support because she felt her ds didn't have any issues and it was making him out to be different amongst his peers.

Also, when I spoke to the SENCO re the nasty comments I asked her whether other children were doing the same to my ds, as I was worried he was becoming a target. The SENCO said, "no, it is just XXXX... it is just his way".

Sorry I meant to say that the boy was put forward for additional suport in Reception class - but the mum put a stop to it. So this has been going on for as long as the school have had him.

So Gabid have you told the mum that her ds is no longer welcome round your house? or are you just going to let it ride and not invite him over? What would happen if she phoned you up or spoke directly to you in the playground, asking you for help as she was really stuck and needed you to look after her ds?

I only ask this as this is what has happened to me. I made the decision, no more, and did not invite the boy over at all. However, the mum asks me to look after her son because she is really stuck.

If you have said something directly to her, how did she take it?

When that friend comes round I watch them closely as my DS will follow along with any stupid behaviour and find it funny. Don't forget DS is just 6 and his friend is still 5, so a bit younger. I try to keep them busy, e.g. a quick run around in the park before going home after school, baking, games, etc. and I stop any bad behaviour immediately and don't let him ignore me. I think he has understood that he can't behave like this in our house, its much better now - but its always an exhausting play date!

We are quite frienldly with the boy's family, although I wouldn't say we are close. But I am glad I don't have to say any more, because I am not sure she is aware how her son can behave, although I have seen him hitting out at her in an angry fit without making a big deal out of it. Mine tried that and I chose to make a big deal.

I'm afraid you are going to have to bite the bullet and say something. I note that your DS does not go over there for any sleep overs where the mother can witness his behavior. I get the impression that you are being taken advantage of. If this woman cannot accept you tactfully telling her that her son is a little monster then I'm afraid your relation ship is not as a friend but a childminder and as such should be terminated. Who needs friends like that! Another thing to consider, this child is a bully and if he is not stopped, your children may think it is acceptable to be treated that way. or worse still to treat people as he does. Not a good cycle to get into.

I agree with the others, you are going to have to take a deep breath and tell the parents that you cannot take care of him anymore.

And you have to do it soon.

He hit your son today so this is your chance to speak up tomorrow.

Tell her that the boys don't seem to be getting along anymore and that her son has told you several times that he doesn't like coming to your house and has told you more than once that he doesn't like your son and that they are not friends.

Tell her that he shows his dislike by being rude and aggressive to all of you and that you feel unable to take care of him any more when he is so obviously unhappy about it and behaving in this way to show his displeasure and that it is now upsetting your children far too much as well. She needs to understand how violent he can be and how difficult he is to control.

Tell her you are sorry but that she must find someone else to babysit from now on as you feel it will be best for all the children, her son included. Her job is not your problem and it certainly isn't your children's problem.

It would be a shame for your son to lose out about the rugby but it might not happen and at worst you could try and find another team or another sport.

It's not worth putting up with your children being bullied for. Especially not in their own home or with such violence.

Okay, I also agree you should tell her. But I accept that you can't or won't. But you absolutely cannot have him over again for your DS' sake, right? Right??

So other options:

1. Fib: Tell her there have been problems the last couple times, and that you now cannot have him over. Use the mildest examples in explanation.
2. Lie: tell her that XYZ is going on in your life right now (ill non-existant relative? working from home? nervous breakdown?) and you can't handle more than just your own kids, you're so sorry, you'll let her know if and when you can have him over again (when hell freezes over).
3. Avoid: Hide from her at school gate. Have a list of excuses ready for when she corners you with her diary out, and wheel them out one by one. Never answer her calls; call/text her back and say, sorry, missed your call... etc. Gives you time to be ready with excuses.

Thanks for your answers. I know I am in the wrong here as much as the little boy. I should have said something ages ago but bottled it.

Even with all the advice, I am going to avoid the situation but getting out of any questions re babysitting. I'm certainly not going to fall for the "are you doing anything on X date?" or "what are you up to tonight?" - I will say "I'm not sure, why?", rather than "nothing", only to be asked to then babysit! If the diary comes out I will say I need to get my diary first so let me get back to you.

However, I have a feeling it will eventually come to a head, if only at school. Because the school haven't dealt with him (same as me so I'm not judging the school), the boy is now feeling picked on because the school are trying to tackle it.

Good, I'm glad you're not going to have him at your house again. That's the most important thing for your son. You'll have to keep a close watch on the situation at school and rugby, of course, to make sure the boy isn't bullying your DS. But then you can tackle that through the school rather than directly with the mother.

And of course even if the other boy is horrid to him at school, your DS can come home to a safe place where the bully isn't allowed in.

Answer honestly OP.

What is really stopping you from just telling his mum that there is a problem? What, in detail, are you afraid of happening if you do?

WhereYouLeftIt - honestly it is about rugby. In detail, what I am afraid of happening is that the boy's dad, the rugby coach, will sub my ds off far more than is fair. 2 weeks on the trot my ds was sub for most of the game (1st week he only played 10 mins and 2nd week he only played 1/2 game).

At the age they are at the sub shouldn't be selected on whether they are best or worst, the sub should be on a rota so each boy gets time on the side. My ds is not the best in the team but not the worst either. He is middle, but getting better as time goes on. However, if he doesn't play then he won't get better.

Going to another club is actually quite hard. My ds has friends at the club he is at that he has built up since he was 5! Also, which I forgot to say, my other ds2 plays at the club but for a younger side (my ds2 is 2 years younger) and he really really enjoys it. Lots of his school friends play there too. Going to another club doesn't just affect my ds1 but also my ds2.

Pingu - do you really think that his dad would deliberately punish your son for you speaking out? You earlier posted "He has played there for 3 years, has friends there and because he has SEN, the coach (the boys dad) really watches out for him and makes sure he understands something before moving on to something else." That doesn't sound like the kind of person you fear he might be.

Whereyouleftit - I know from the conversation with his mum that the daily behaviour communication between school and home has been happening for about 1-2 months now. As a lot of the bad / naughty behaviour at school centres around my ds it stands to reason that the daily communication will include "your ds hit 'son of Pingu' today" or "your ds screamed at 'son of Pingu' today" or "your ds said nasty things to 'son of Pingu' today".

The additional time my ds has spent as sub has coincided with the daily behaviour communications. I am putting 2 and 2 together and think that his dad has made my ds sub on more occassions and for longer, only since the school has raised it with the parents.

It doesn't bode well!

I don't know why the boy has targetted my ds.

Sorry for saying this - because he's been given implicit permission to continue doing so

I don't quite get the mum nor the school. So, the school keeps talking to her about her DS bullying your DS on a daily basis, for two months! Why for that long? Obviously, whatever the school did doesn't seem to be working, so what's the next step? They can't keep phoning mum every day. The mum must then be very aware of the problems between your DSs and she keeps sending him round your house??

And if the dad doesn't give all the boys equal time on the playing field then he wouldn't be a fair coach and maybe it would be better to find another team or sport.

I think you have put up with enough - when you say something I think you should stay close to the truth (she knows what's going on anyway). You don't have to tell her everything and how long it's been going on.

Pingu I was thinking I can relate to some of what you're going through, but it wasn't until I saw The List you wrote that I realised what your core problem is: You've stored it up so long I think you're worried about what'll happen if you Get Started.

I know this because I'm a lot like that, too. I've been almost crippled with worry about getting too worked up and saying something I might regret.

This leads to not being very good at confrontation or doing things On the Spot which, in turn, can lead to a bit of self-inflicted bullying (I definitely caught that on your subsequent postings).

The 'bad' news is you're not going to magically turn into a different person and instantly get good at this. But the good news is, you don't have to - there are coping techniques.

Start off with a version of "one step at a time": before you talk to the mother, ABSOLUTELY promise yourself you won't go further than you feel comfortable: (I'd recommend it be: 1. a version of "I didn't know how to tell you earlier, but I'm doing it now..." and 2. the summarise points Jamie listed above).

If the mother wants to hear more and you're not confident about talking about it, rehearse a line, something like: "Can we go away, think about it, and talk again tomorrow?' Eventually you may get to The List, but the time you do, you, at least (and, almost certainly, she) will be able to discuss it calmly.

The second coping technique is to discipline yourself to rise above the emotions, philosophically and intellectually. Yes, your first priority should be towards your DS and yourself. But that's such a given, it shouldn't be part of your minute-to-minute thinking - you don't think about breathing, do you? And if either of the boy's parents believe you'd be otherwise, they don't deserve human company, let alone yours. (And they probably don't - that should help you to stop 'borrowing trouble' in worrying about their reaction).

You've kept good and careful notes. You are loving and kind. You've been a good friend to the parents, and more caring for this boy than he [currently] deserves. You can get through this!

And you and your DSes deserve to get through this. When you tell the parents, and maybe even help them to help their son, you're doing everybody some good.

Last, but definitely not least, even if your DS doesn't right now get everything about what this challenge has meant to you, he will someday. And he can learn either that you put up with things on the [only] perceived worry that somebody's going to act badly towards you, or that you got over an issue of your own for his greater good.

Good luck!

Ok for what it's worth, here's my advice (I'm not an expert but have been a Special Needs teacher for 10 years, have two kiddlies and a step daughter of my own), let's start with a clean slate.

The next time the boy comes over, tell him you're going to do things differently from now on.

Tell him that in your house there are eg 3 rules:

we treat each other with respect (explain what this means)
we keep our hands to ourselves
we use please and thank you

These rules are just examples. come up with your own rules but make sure there aren't too many. Be very, very clear with him that these are your rules and everyone in your house has to stick to them.

Next, show him an empty jam jar. Tell him that each time you catch him being kind (give examples) in your house, you're going to put a marble in the jam jar. when the jam jar is full he will be allowed to choose what you all do one afternoon.

This will make him feel important and will reward him for good behaviour. (obviously you need to give guidance as to what this activity will be eg a trip to the park, playing rounders in the back garden, feeding the ducks. Try to get it to be an event NOT a toy, etc).

Basically what you're doing is rewarding him for good behaviour and paying attention to him for good behaviour.

You need to be very upbeat in what you say eg Well done x I saw you sharing that car with y. That's kind behaviour. Let's put a marble in your jar. I wonder how many marbles you'll get today.

You'll feel so much better (and so will he) when you are able to speak positivley to him. Look for any opportunity to praise him (and own children of course) and be very specific eg x you are being such a good boy waiting patiently for me to listen to your story).

This attention for positive behaviour should cut down on some of the put downs that he's doing to your son. However, it won't get rid of all of them. He needs to be educated in how to treat others, especially others that are less intelligent or able than us. You need to show him how to speak appropriately and help him to learn that we're all different and that we all have different talents. In front of him say to your son eg Son( obviously use your child's name) I liked the way you kept trying to do that puzzle. You showed great persistence. I think persistence is one of your talents. Then turn to friend's child and say, I wonder what your talents are? That way you're showing him that your son can be talented at something and he too can have talents. They will be different talents but they can be equally valid.

Make sure you find lots of opportunities to boost your child's self esteem by focusing on talents eg Son, when you patted your brother because he was hurt that showed how kind you are. I think kindness is one of your talents.

In this mini essay (!) I've avoided giving you advice about confronting your friend, refusing to have the other boy over, etc, etc and try to focus on some practical ways in which you can boost your self esteem, help this other little boy to learn how to treat others and, hopefully, make your load a little lighter. Best of luck.

JackyJax - forget the boy who comes round, I'm using that trick for my own children. Fantastic idea. Just need to get shed loads of marbles!