to say nothing to a boy's parents about his behaviour?

[pingu2209]

He is only 8 - as is my ds. They are friends in school but have an uneasy friendship. I am a SAHM and his mum works so every few weeks I look after the boy so she can attend a meeting/training etc.

Over a period of 9 months the boy has been really horrible to my ds, who has SEN. My son's SEN mean he is frustrating to deal with and he is at least 1-2 years behind academically. When I have looked after him (sometimes over night) so his mum can do the odd late night for work, he speaks to my ds with utter contempt, regularly saying how much better he is at everything than my ds. He is also rude to me.

About 6 months ago he attacked my ds in the lunch queue (biting, hitting, kicking) Both his parents and I were called in. The boy was sent home for the rest of the day, and I had to try and calm my ds down (he becomes hysterical, which is part of his SEN). The mum was so apologetic and was really upset so I said, never mind, lets just move on.

Things came to a head about 3 months ago when he made all 3 of my dc cry when he came over. In fact he nearly made me cry as he was so horrible - I can't say what he said as I don't want anyone to recognise me on here.

I know I should have spoken to his mother about her son's behaviour but I just can't. It would be really really difficult.

Instead I went to the school, who although can't do anything about out of school incidents, they said that he have seen the boy be nasty to my ds in school a few times. Whilst they didn't say so, I think that the boy is nasty to other children as well. The school decided that this boy's behaviour was an issue generally and they would watch him.

I heard no more about it, but decided to keep the boy at very long arms length.

2 nights ago the mum asked me if she could speak to me about her ds. Deep breath in! She wanted advice! She said that there is now a daily communication between the school and her about her ds behaviour. She said she didn't like the teacher and felt she was picking on her ds. I said nothing. She said she had gone to the head to complain but the head had said that the teacher was really experienced and that her ds' behaviour did require alteration because he was upsetting a few of his friends.

I realise this was my prime opportunity to say, yes I know, he has done it to my ds, but I bottled it again. I also think I have let things go for so long that for me to list all that her ds has done/said, she would be really angry at me for not telling her.

Today, my ds came home and said that the boy had hit him again in the playground and the boy had been given a 10 minute detention, again.

MadameCastafiore - it is because of the rugby. Read the thread. My son has SEN and lives for his rugby. It is what gives him confiendence and makes him feel normal. The boy's father is his rugby coach. It is not as simple as moving rugby teams, it really isn't, because of my ds SEN.

By not saying something I am trying to protect him. I am also trying very hard not to have the boy over, but I get asked (I don't invite him) and to say no would mean explaining why.

OP, I do understand about the rugby, but you have said that for 9 months he was horrible to your son in his own home

I agree with MadameCastafiore.
By not saying something you are allowing a nasty child to make your CHILDREN CRY, and continue to do so. You're letting someone bully your children!
If you can't say something face to face, then write her a letter.
The rugby coach is an adult, if he can't act responsibly without letting his personal feelings affect the children then he needs to be a replaced. If he does start treating your child differently, then tell whoever runs the rugby club and get them to sort it out.

The trouble is, you're asking for advice, receiving it and not liking the advice! I can understand why, I can understand why it's difficult for you and why you are trying to work it all out in your head, but no-one has yet said "don't tell her". You do need to tell her. Be honest with her, ask for her help and her opinion to sort out the problem in the best way for all of you. Explain why you haven't said anything so far. I'm afraid you will probably have to admit that you have been too scared to say anything for fear of making things "unpleasant", it's hard to see it as anything else.

You do need to be brave and tackle this awkward situation for your son's sake. It need not affect the rugby, if they are decent people then I don't see why it should - if it does, well then, it does. But ignoring it is not going to help matters.

So you don't mind your son getting bullied and treated like shit in his own home? Seriously you can sort this out without it resulting into a bun fight. When she said something to you you should have said we have had a few problems when he has been here, they she would have wanted to know what.

Jesus H christ woman, open your mouth.

Yes. True. Since about October I have looked after the boy about 12 times in my home. Over the last 3 months, only 3 times.

However, since January, I haven't asked him over. His mother has asked me to have him.

Actually it is that simple and you should give his parents the credit to deal with it in a reasonable manner - explain why you haven't said anything and you may be surprised but please stop allowing your child to be bullied in what should be a safe place for him.

Does your son go to his house?

Next time she asks you to have him, you'll have to say no, won't you? And then she'll want to know why. The longer you leave this, the harder you are making it for yourself and for everyone else.

What do you think your son is taking from this?
That to fit in with a rugby team, and not rock the boat, his entire family have to put up with being upset in their own home?
It's only a matter of time before he realises that you are condoning the horrible behaviour of this other child for his 'benefit'.
That seems a strange way to build his confidence.
He will be looking to you to show him that he does not have to put up with bullying.
There are other rugby teams, but it might not come to that.
These people are not monsters, they are supposed to be your friends.

Also - does your son ask for this boy to some round, ever? Because it sounds as if it's more of an arrangement between the parents. An unpaid, and possibly unreciprocated one, at that

I am being a coward but not because of the worry of conflict - I can handle and argument/loss of a friend. I am only not saying anything because of the dad being the rugby coach. I am trying to protect my ds rugby playing too.

My ds used to go to the boy's house but not for a long while. Since January, when I made the decision to make a wide gap between the boys (other than at Rugby on a Sunday), I have not invited the boy over, at all. But there hasn't been an invite for my ds for a long while. Certainly not since October time. I hadn't even thought about that!

The parents are not bad people, but they are human. The whole school thing has been a huge shock for them.

"I know I should have spoken to his mother about her son's behaviour but I just can't. It would be really really difficult."

" ... but I bottled it again. I also think I have let things go for so long that for me to list all that her ds has done/said, she would be really angry at me for not telling her."

"The boys dad is my ds rugby coach, and my ds lives for his rugby. I do think that my ds sport will be affected."

So, going by what YOU have told us, you're afraid of his mother getting angry at you, and his father - what? Chucking him off the team? Being nasty to him at practice? What? What are you afraid of? I'm pushing this point because I think the 'what' is a big vague scary cloud you can't put into words and that is making it ten times as scary to you. Seriously, sit calmly and think it through. How EXACTLY will it affect the rugby? Or put another way, how low an opinion of the father do you have? Could you be literally worrying about nothing? You have said the dad is good with your son. Do you seriously think he's going to have a total personality transplant overnight when you have 'The Talk' that you know you have to have with this couple?

And note, you think she will be angry, not because you are telling her the problems you are having with her son's behaviour; no, you think she will be angry for NOT having told her already!

They know (from the school) that their son has behavioural problems. You're not going to be telling them something they don't know already, you're simply going to be putting some flesh on the bones, as it were. And maybe you giving them the details will HELP. Because while you sit silently, they are getting mixed messages, the school saying one thing and you (via silence) saying another. Can you wonder the mother thinking it might be the teacher?

So, having missed the opening she gave you, you now have to think of a way of raising it with her/them independently. How about
"Look, I know I should have told you this before, but my mother really dinned in to me the 'if you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all' and I struggle still to overcome this. " Explains why you haven't said anything, and it's nothing to do with how you think they'll react so they won't take offence. "There have been problems with your son's behaviour when he's been here, I thought it would settle down as he got used to being around my DC, so I didn't mention it to you. But it didn't settle down, and I then didn't know how to tell you." And take it from there.

You know you have to do this. Stop putting it off, it's because of the length of time you've had it hanging over your head that you're so scared of doing it. Bite the bullet, and you can all move on.

The dad is doing right by your son, and it does not necessarily follow that he will stop treating your boy well, if you do right by their son and give them support in addressing his behavioural issues. They might appreciate it.

You can get around this by asking to speak to the mum and say that you want to talk to her. Tell her you were unprepared for the conversation last time, and had not given the matter proper prior thought. Now you have been made aware, and given time to think about it, you have put two and two together. You had initially thought it was a case of their son not getting along with your son, due to your sons SEN, but after what she said last time, you are now wondering if this is not the case at all. THEN giver her some of your observations.

MadamDeathstare. I don't think people are reasonable over their children though. I really believe my ds rugby will be affected.

The other thing teh mum said to me the other day was that she had noticed her ds was being nasty at rugby. At least she is now seeing it.

Well then, if she's seeing it, she's halfway there. I really think it's sounding better and better for telling them.

They're obviously aware there is an issue. You can say you've noticed some problems without going totally OTT about it. The Dad sounds nice. Doubt he would suddenly turn on your son

Do not tell the parents.
Just carry on allowing your son to feel belittled and scared in his own home.

After all he gets to do a couple of hours of rugby as a pay off for accepting all the shit you are allowing to happen to him.

And as a bonus he can see you treating this child with contempt and making snide comments about his personality whilst licking the arses of the child's parents in an effort to keep them from being upset with you.

YABU

What I would have to say to the mum and dad are the incidents. I will list some of these but they may give the game away of who I am. After reading them, how would you feel if you were told this? This is why I don't want to tell her.

• I took them all to the park and he refused point blank to allow anyone of my children on the zip wire (the fav. ride of all children in our park). When I made him share, he then threw the zip wire at my dd (age 3) and hit her round the head with it.

• Your son tells my son all the time that he is much better than him at: reading, writing, maths, science, any board game, running, sport .... to the stage that my ds starts to cry and your son then calls him a cry baby.

• Your ds asked me whether I wished I never had or I could give my ds back (in reference to his SEN)?

• When I asked your son repeatedly to sit down on his bottom on the chair over dinner rather than kneeling on the chair and leaning over the table, he back chat me and said that he didn't have to do it at home so why should he here.

• When my dh and I were talking to ourselves about our ds at the table and saying how well his maths was improving, your ds shouted out to us across the table that our ds was rubbish at maths. He then started barking times table questions at my ds to show him up infront of us and his siblings.

• When your ds stayed at ours and I gave (obvious) rules such as no throwing balls in the house, no playing on the stairs, he ignored all of them to the stage I had to really shout at him and put him on the naughty step (he was 7).

• When your ds comes to our house and all 3 boys play on the Wii, your son keeps one controller and expects my 2 ds to share the other controller. When I told him sharing meant you all rotate the controllers, he had a hissy fit and said he was the guest so shouldn't need to share.

• When I ask your ds to move over on the sofa to let others sit down, he back chats me and says, but I want to lie out. When I remind him there are others here who need to sit down, he groans at me at how rubbish it is at my house.

• When I took him to a church after school club (because you were working), he went up to the vicars wife (who he knows is the vicars wife) and said his mum had made him come and he thinks it is really boring.

• When we asked our dc and your ds not to go in to or open the kitchen door in the morning when they got up as they would let out our new puppy. We could hear him clearly telling our ds2 that he was going to go in the kitchen. Our ds2 said, no don't or my mummy will shout (too bloody right). His response was, I don't care, I want to. (My dh went down and shouted at them).

• When your ds and my ds were playing a board game, but my ds couldn't understand the rules, your ds leant over and screamed 1 inch away from ds face.

• When our sons were playing rugby, your ds screamed at my ds that he was rubbish.

• When your ds was subbed off at rugby and my ds came off sub to play, your ds folded his arms, stomped his feet and screamed at his dad (the coach) that he was a better player than my ds and shouldn't be sub.

• When your son was invited to our house for my ds party he said he didn't want to come. I said, okay don't come and he said good, but you said you really needed him to come so you could work late.

• When your son came over to our house for my ds party he said that the pool we had was rubbish and his was far better and he wished he wasn't at ours.

• When you son said he had no friends and I asked him to list who was his friend, he didn't mention my ds. I questioned him and said, but XXX (my ds) is your friend. He said, no he isn't, I don't like him.

There are many more.

Wow, you really have been doing both your own children, and this boy a disservice by not telling any of this to his parents.

These can be summarised as:

Rudeness and backchat - basically not respecting authority
Saying unkind things to your son repeatedly
Acting violently to your daughter

They are all things he should have earned by now - to censor his thoughts and not say them out loud, to think of other's feelings and to do what he's told!

None of them are that extreme, but they suggest a boy who doesn't have good social skills. Actually he sounds like he could be pretty unhappy. Happy children generally don't try and make themselves feel good at the expense of others. Either that or he has just not be pulled up on these issues by his parents before.

Actaully scrap that bit about not being extreme. That sounds like I'm minimising. He sounds horrible to be around, and he needs to be stopped for his own sake and others

You don't need to reel out all these issues in one long list though, do you? You just need to talk about why this boy doesn't like coming to your house (which he clearly doesn't) and the fact that when he does, he makes things difficult for the whole family. If his mother asks for examples, then you can select a couple of them. She needs to make alternative arrangements for everyone's sakes, not just your son's. Perhaps she is not aware of how much he doesn't want to be at your house!

The longer this goes on, the worse it will be. It sounds to me as though you know you have to tackle it, so don't put it off any longer :)

JamieAgain, I think it does sound like a sad boy and one who may well be jelous of my ds. I have no idea why he would be jelous, but I don't know how 7/8 year old minds work.

I will try and work up the courage to tell her.

When he asked if I wanted to give my ds back, it made me cry! Not infront of him though.