to think that my nanny agency shouldn't have helped my nanny find another job behind my back?

[wolfhound]

Not sure if I am BU or not, but I am sure someone will tell me!

Our part-time nanny, who has been great and formed a really good bond with my two DSs (3.5y and 21mths), has just given her notice (after just over a year).

Difficult timing for us, as DC3 due in 7 weeks, and then both boys beginning a new pre-school in September. I was really counting on the continuity of our nanny to be a stabilising factor through all that.

Obviously that's my problem, not hers (she has decided she wants a full time job which is fair enough, though she did assure us when hired that she wanted this part-time role long term.) It's her right to look for another job and give us notice.

However, my beef is more with the nanny agency. The rep there has just rung me to get a reference for my nanny (for her new job) and to ask if we wanted them to find us a new one. Am I being unreasonable in thinking that I am their client, and they shouldn't be out there finding my nanny another job (while I am blithely unaware). They got a hefty great dollop of cash for finding me that nanny - now they're getting another dollop for passing her on to someone else, and want a third great dollop for finding me someone new.

Am I just being peevish because it's awkward for me? Or is this basically wrong?

I sympathise with you losing your nanny. My nanny left after a year to have a baby (not returning to work), and I was upset. Like you I had clarified with her that she was looking for long-term work, and checked with her regularly that she was happy with her job. Turns out she started trying to conceive within 6 months of starting work!

Have you asked the agency if they'll give you a discount? My agency gave me 25% off the fee next time around.

But I wouldn't have issues with the agency finding the the nanny though wolfhound - they are an independent bussiness. I would be more upset over the lines of communication between myself the nanny and my employer.

I've just read your last post - about you working from home.
Your nanny had not much in her cv when she came to you, now she feels more confident so she applies for jobs with working out of house parents. Most nannies dont like working for parents who are at home, so it is usually the newly qualified once who will take these posts, to use them as stepping stone for the next post. I don't think this makes her bad person or bad nanny. Neither you are a bad employer.

I agree about the 8 wks notice.

VERY difficult for all concerned if parents work from home, including the children.

Interesting what you say about the working from home issues laquitar and valium - had never considered that. It has felt good from my perspective. I am shut up in my study and don't wander in and out, and nanny has full control. Sometimes we all have lunch together, again nanny in control. Not a problem for the children either - they happily wave me upstairs in the morning and yell for me to come downstairs in the afternoon. What issues do you see with the situation - would be useful for me to consider so can discuss with applicants for next nanny.

And, yes, I think the nanny has perhaps just decided she is ready (in terms of her own experience, and of now having references, and of higher earning potential perhaps) to get a full-time job. Obviously I can't argue with that. But, like Rebecca, frustrating when you are specifically looking for someone who wants to stay long-term in the type of job you're offering and have discussed that at length with them. Any tips on how to identify applicants who genuinely want to stay long-term would also be gratefully received!

OrigFab - yes, the Lady, hadn't thought of that. Will look into it.

Turns out she started trying to conceive within 6 months of starting work!

This is where employer/employee relationships really get blurred imo. What is the nanny meant to say at the interview?- "Look, I am trying to conceive, it might take 5 years, it might take 6 months, it might never happen at all, are you happy with that?" She'd not even make the shortlist! In the same way as an employer you wouldn't expect to have to discuss TTC with your nanny, equally the nanny shouldn't have to either.

Agree YABU

Hope you manage to end things well with your Nanny. After all...you've appreciated her help over the year.

im sorry you feel put out and maybe feel the nanny lied to you saying she wanted a long term job

but see it from her/a nannies point of view - we often start jobs and get told they want a long term nanny then mum gets made redundant/pregnant/gives up work - and there is nothing we can do about it and out of a job 3mths later for example

i dont feel the agency did anything wrong - the nanny contacted them not them head hunting her

hope you find a nice nanny soon :)

OP it's great you shut yourself away to work and hand over the reins to your nanny, but many nannies (I include myself) would not want a job where it wasn't fully sole charge as lots of parents DON'T do what you do and it gets confusing for everyone. I had been in my last job for 5 years before my employer had another baby and was home for a year - NEVER again, I don't think I have ever been so miserable.

Blondes/Sausages - tbh, I did feel upset with my nanny, but have not said anything, because I think, as you say, it is not clear cut, and obviously she has her life decisions to make too. Talking it through here has been quite useful, actually. And she has been great with my boys, which I have really appreciated, so definitely want to finish things on a positive note. I expect that once I have got on with the job of finding someone else, I will feel fine about it all. I will definitely try the non-agency route this time - not worth paying repeated high premiums.

Valium - yes, useful point. I will need to make that very clear to potential applicants that I will stay right out of the way. Might even put something about that in the advert.

If you have been pleased with your nanny OP, send her off with some nice drawings from the kids and a card/little pressie from you. The childcare world is surprisingly small and word gets round very quickly if nannies feel they haven't been appreciated ( even if you have to bite your tongue while doing it )

And good idea about putting in the next advert about you handing over sole charge. Good luck in finding someone new.

The obvious one is to look for a nanny who sees nannying as career, not someone who is dreaming of another career. Some stability in her life (long term relationship, long term tenancy or mortgage). Check the cv how long did she stay in previous jobs and why. You can always offer an extra bonus for staying 18 months or so

Regarding working from home many dcs play up when parents are there but you are saying that yours dont so it doesnt apply in your case. I guess the nanny feels 'watched' no matter how nice the parents are. Also nannies like to go to each others house for lunch and play. Can you perhaps compensate that by giving some money for lunch out with the other nannies every now and then?

I guess you know that there is a thread in childcare board 'mums looking for childcare' and another one 'nannies looking for job'

Yearly bonuses and reviews are always a good thing ime!

and also www.netmums.co.uk

Of course the nanny has the right to look for another job and it sounds like she needs a full-time job.

I think there is a question of conflict of interest here somewhere.

In other industries a company in the agency's position would be required to decide who was their primary client and not 'act against them' as it were. It is difficult to see how, in any other sector, they would be allowed to be involved in all sides of the trade as they are here. Sorry for the city speak.

You have a relationship with the agency but the nanny's may be even more longstanding.

I would say that the period of time they have arranged the original "deal" and the nanny's going is marginally long enough - just. In any nanny agency agreement I wonder if there is anything in the terms about approaching the nanny they're placing for subsequent jobs, i.e. how long before they can 'solicit' or offer to act on her behalf (in the event she called them?) I think her calling them is different from them ringing her b/c they have a good opp, in terms of the ethics. Because she needs a full time job I would be more understanding about this personally than otherwise...

but still would tighten up the terms with subsequent agencies - this is a good lesson for people - and even better as Laquitar says recruit DIY!!!

Great tips, thank you all very much. Yearly bonuses good idea - had never even thought of that. Have a big work deadline next week (tho' have been faffing about on MN rather a lot) and am going to do nanny stuff after that. Really appreciate all your points. And Valium, yes will do the drawings/card/pressie thing. It is nanny's birthday that week as well, so was planning to do that for her in any case.

I have called up an agency and asked them to find me another position asap - as the family was clearly bonkers

Only happened once in 20 years, but it DID happen and the agency were only too happy to find me somewhere else. And I was VERY grateful to have to agency talk to the family about their bloody awful behaviour

Gosh it's a minefield hey?

Of course if the family behaves badly the agency would want to reserve the right to help the nanny find another option.

Valium I see your point, but I think in an emotive career like nannying, where children's feelings are at stake, it's a bit unfair to say you are looking for long-term work, while planning to start trying for a baby (knowing you don't intend to return to work after that) within 6 months. Maybe it's OK in a "normal" job where there isn't an issue of emotional attachment, but in nannying I think it's a bit thoughtless. Unforeseen things happen in life that you can't plan for, but this was planned.

YABU. If the agency (or any agency in any field) actively sought out your nanny to offer her a post or offer to find her a post then that would be morally wrong and in that case worthy of blacklisting or whatever.

But if the nanny/any employee was actively seeking a new role anyway, daft to expect an agency to turn them away as a good candidate for a role just because they placed them in their current job. Refusing her as a candidate doesn't help you the original employer as she will just use another agency/find work directly.

And on the ttc point I don't think a nanny should be under any more obligation than anyone else to tell their employer that they are ttc, or to tell a prospective employer that they might possibly start ttc in the next year.

Yes flowery I agree they shouldn't be under an obligation to tell a propective employer their ttc plans. But don't you think it would be decent behaviour to avoid long-term jobs involving bonding with children if you know you're likely to be leaving soon? It's not like most other jobs. Most work colleagues don't form a trusting bond and child-like attachment with eachother!

No I don't. If they are a nanny by profession then by definition their job involves bonding with children, and unless they are going to restrict themselves to unreliable temp work for their child-bearing years, then virtually every job will be long-term. I appreciate your point, and I have a nanny myself so I can empathise, but it's not realistic or fair to think decent nannies wouldn't apply for permanent work when they might ttc in the near future.

But if that´s what you´ve trained for, what do you do-just stop working?

I can see the OP's point of view. I recruit from time to time in my profession, and I would definitely blacklist an agency that did this to me. Similar issues have come up, and we've been approached for an "OK" before the agency took the instruction - which we were OK with and used the agency again.

Apparently nanny agencies aren't bound by these rules.

Wolfhound, in the example you give re an employer sacking the nanny and re employing, the employer would be liable for unfair dismissal if the nanny had been working for over 1 year. So it's not exactly the same thing.

I am hiring at the moment, and this is making me think longer notice period!