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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to report a facebook photo of naked children?

77 replies

ednurse · 16/05/2011 23:13

This photo is on a friend of a friends account. Friend has been 'tagged' so anyone who is friends with him can see it.

Said picture is of a girl about 5 and a boy of around 2 in the bath (naked) standing up and leaning against the wall....bent over almost so you can see their behinds.

AIBU to report it? I'm all for photos of babies/toddlers playing in the bath being modestly covered but I think this is just ridiculous..

OP posts:
Folk · 17/05/2011 08:35

These photos stay online forever - the children now who are being photographed and posted online in the nuddy are going to be applying for jobs one day. Imagine going to a job interview now or getting into a relationship and your potential employer / boyfriend can find out that it took you until 8 to be potty trained or look at pics of you as a naked toddler or that you liked to smear shit on the wall or any other thing that you might want to remain private that your parents have chosen to plaster over the www because it was a new and exciting thing at the time....

Okonomiyaki · 17/05/2011 08:38

What about children playing naked on the beach? Is that an overstepping of boundaries too? Not sure what I think tbh but am interested to hear the arguments.

onagar · 17/05/2011 09:07

Why stop there? In 10 years time they may decide they didn't want their faces on the net or even in the hands of relatives. Imagine if they convert to Islam for example!

All of you with photo albums should burn them now and their sale should be a criminal offence. Get rid of those cameras too. They could be used to take photos of bunny rabbits, but a child might wander into the picture.

Okonomiyaki · 17/05/2011 09:14

Ok, I'm definitely with spud on the 'not being able to police people's imaginations' bit and not going off on a wild peedo hunt. I do think it's right, natural and lovely for children to play naked both at home and in public, although I am not sure to what age.

However, I also find Hecate's argument that children should have a right to bodily autonomy, and that this right should be respected from the earliest age, even when they are physically utterly dependent on us, very compelling.

I am saying this of someone who took naked photos of her baby son only yesterday. None of which included his genitals - not a conscious decision at the time but one which presumably shows that I am vaguely aware of some kind of boundary but haven't yet put any thinking time into what this is.

I would say though, that rather than thinking I have a right to do with my child's body as I please, I am actually operating from the basis of this being by far the most physically intimate relationship I have ever had, bar none. He came out of my body, he feeds from my body, I change his nappies, we bathe together almost daily, he sleeps with me etc. Inevitably (and rightly!) this will tail off as he grows older. But for now this is how it is, and my wish to take photos of him like this stems from our relationship.

BUT, I am still very drawn to Hecate's view. Has anyone seen the Link that was floating round feminism a few weeks ago? I can't remember what the film was called (the something experiment?) but it vividly demonstrated the damage caused to a daughter by parental voyeurism - her father had taken thousands of photos of her, in an age where that was no mean feat.

Bucharest · 17/05/2011 09:18

Of course perverts, paedophiles and child molesters exist.

Usually within the family of the abused child, so presumably with more than photographic access to the child........

Okonomiyaki · 17/05/2011 09:18

Sorry, I know I'm straying away from the subject area. I'm actually trying to build up the courage to start a thread myself on children's rights. Probably on the feminism board. It's a very emotive subject...

Bucharest · 17/05/2011 09:21

I never saw the aestheticism in naked photos of my own child actually. I think I have one somewhere of her in the bath, covered in bubbles when she was about 8mths old. To me, they are kind of like those vomit-inducing photos of children covered in food. I just don't get why anyone would want to?

bronze · 17/05/2011 09:29

I've got a picture of my ds naked on my profile. It doesn't show anything.
I'm not going to take it off because some pervert somewhere may get his kicks from it but probably would never come across it and can see more naked toddler flesh on a nappy advert

There are levels though and I guess it's down the facebook and the parents in this cas
Children are probably more at risk being left with bil/nursery/family friend than they are from a random photo.

In this case I would message them though because they may not realise thattagging maked it so visible

bronze · 17/05/2011 09:30

Hecates argument makes me think twice more than the paranoia side does.
Time to mull (but I like that picture Sad)

MumblingRagDoll · 17/05/2011 09:33

Ignore all the persmissive free thinkers....they're naive in the extreme. You did right.

porcamiseria · 17/05/2011 09:34

message them to say "what a lovely photo. however please make sure your security settings are tight on facebook, as read a scary article the other day about people using facebook inappropriately" job done

cory · 17/05/2011 09:47

"but when society has required we are clothed and nakedness is considered to be a private thing, then do you have the right to control the nakedness of someone else?"

But does society require a baby's nakedness to be a private thing in the same way as an adult's?

In most societies, there are various stages of what counts as private depending on age and development of the individual.

Most of us would not feel we had invaded privacy if we watched a friend change her baby's nappy, but we would feel we had if 12 years later we happened to catch sight of the same child in the loo.

In many parts of Europe naked children are a common sight on beaches until the age of 4 or 5- this is not because parents in these countries do not respect children's rights, but because nakedness in a child is not seen as connected with privacy, any more than being seen without a veil would be considered a privacy issue for an adult. Hardly any Swedes (except perverts) would see a difference between a young child's face and their body in terms of privacy; in fact, in the terms of that culture seeing such a difference would pretty well out you as a pervert.

From that pov you could equally say that taking any photo of a child is invading their privacy- presumably you don't own their face more than any other part of their body?

The problem with the UK seems to be that there is a lot of divergence as to what child nakedness means; is it a privacy issue or is it one of those things (like not covering your face) that simply doesn't affect how we view privacy.

Some people evidently do find it troubling, and if it is potentially troubling to the child, then you could argue that it is indeed a privacy issue.

onagar · 17/05/2011 09:52

Those people saying to let her know it's visible etc may have missed that the OP has already reported her to facebook for displaying child porn on her page.

Does anyone really think that was appropriate?

Animation · 17/05/2011 12:12

.."if it is potentially troubling to the child , then you could argue that it is indeed a privacy issue."

Yes.

whatsallthehullaballoo · 17/05/2011 13:16

I do not understand the argument that some posters have made that if a pervert is using the the photographs it does not matter because it isn't harming your child Shock

I would do everything in my power to limit the use of my child's image for inappropriate use.

This issue is not just about paedophiles. My own daughter (5yrs) would be MORTIFIED if I put a naked picture of her on the computer. Just because she knows nothing about FB or the internet does not mean - well if she doesn't know it doesn't hurt her. This is how abuse begins as a child - an argument abusers use is that the children don't mind and do not know it is wrong and are happy with what is happening. Does that make it right??

We should never tale advantage of a child's innocence.

Honeybee79 · 17/05/2011 13:23

It's not up to you to report it. Explain the situation to your friend and let him decide whether it should be removed or not.

adliwhore - are you are psychologist/psychiatrist with a trained understanding of paedophilia??

saidthespiderwithahorridsmile · 17/05/2011 14:00

personally I don't much care if some saddo is wanking over pictures of my dc in the bath - I wish such people didn't exist, but no harm comes to my children from being seen

and as for the ownership of one's body - I think the use of the word "ownership" loads that argument in favour of Hecate's point, which I disagree with. It's not about who owns the child's body, it's about (for me) whether or not the child has reached an age where they would want to claim sovereignty over their body and have a view on others seeing images of it. I wouldn't change a 12yo's pants in public either, but I have done so with my younger children and they are have not yet developed the desire or the capacity to object.

I think there is a lot of silliness going on here. Children's bottoms are not offensive. Unless they are covered in shite.

Animation · 17/05/2011 16:08

"Children's bottoms are not offensive.."

No they're not offensive, but surely the important issue is about DIGNITY - children have a right to some dignity and privacy. They may not be able to speak up for themselves, but it's up to the parents to protect their dignity - and you don't go taking photos of them in the nude, and showing them to other people.

stickytoffeepud · 17/05/2011 16:10

This photo is on a friend of a friends account. Friend has been 'tagged' so anyone who is friends with him can see it.

not necessarily

MsToni · 17/05/2011 16:18

I have pictures of my 23mo in the bath, bubbles all over him - I took them to send to his Dad because we don't live together. But I wouldn't put it on facebook or anywhere public.

Like others have said, and I think you have already done so - send a message to the person and suggest they may wish to take it down / off FB.

Insomnia11 · 17/05/2011 16:22

My mum had a naked photo of me, a few months old lying on a rug on my tummy looking cute, up in the house until I was in my twenties I think. When I was about 15 I had a house party and my class mates found it and had a good giggle Blush - I was a a bit embarassed but laughed along too, I got over it.

Yes ok, I see the argument that naked photos might more easily 'fall into the wrong hands' on the internet, but I don't agree with the "autonomy" argument at all. In fact I think it's parents' duty to thoroughly embarrass their kids :) and so what if their future employer sees it? I think their bodies may have changed somewhat between the ages of 5 and 25! And by that time there will so much all manner of crap on the internet about everyone that photos of them naked as a young child will be pretty mundane stuff!

EggyAllenPoe · 17/05/2011 16:27

erm, if it is ok to put pictures of children on your facebook, then surely small kids naked is ok too?

bodily autonomy after all means owning your whole image - if you are using that as an argument it can apply to all photos lothe and otherwise.

EggyAllenPoe · 17/05/2011 16:28

'lothe' = 'clothed'

CaptainBarnacles · 17/05/2011 16:33

All this talk about preserving children's dignity is interesting. Is there anything inherently undignified about being naked? For us uptight adults perhaps, but children love being naked.

whatsallthehullaballoo · 17/05/2011 16:34

The point is that my daughter at aged 5 would be embarrassed now if someone else saw pictures of her naked. I am sure she is not the only child of that age to be aware of privacy.
I also work with early years children and it even preferred by ofsted that children are removed for privacy when having nappy changed and when using the potty because their bodies are private and strangers shouldn't be staring at them in a vulnerable situation.