My DD (2) and a dog question please ...

[doley]

I think I might be being unreasonable here ?

We went to visit a very good friend of mine for coffee ,she has a gorgeous Dachshund and I have a gorgeous 2 year old

The visit kicked off with her dog barking and barking ,and BARKING !
DD was terrified and screamed ,and screamed and SCREAMED !

This went on for a while till my friend suggested that all her dog needed was for me to greet him properly and he would then settle on the sofa .

So ,I did a big hello ,rubbed his tummy, the whole works ... showed DD the LOVELY DOG and he continued to yap at us .

It was difficult ,DD kept clinging to my leg ,dog kept sniffing round her ~she started screaming again and so on ...

I think at this point her dog should have either been put in the garden or behind a closed door( for a bit) to cool down .

I think I might be being unreasonable because he is a treasured member of her family ,he is a lovely dog he lives there and as his owner she didn't see the need .

But,it was just for a short visit ,a quick coffee and a chance to have a quick catch up .

Nobody could hear themselves think ,let alone speak !

I promise I will take advice

But she is two years old. My ds was frightened of old people when he was 2. He loves them now! And sniffer dogs would not bark uncontrollably at a small child, even if she were screaming.

I was under the impression that the friend had invited the op. In which case she should make her guests feel comfortable. If I inivite a guest then I do not allow my ds to bounce off the sofa's or blow a whistle continously.

Well, from what I can gather OP didn´t demand anything.

It seems that neither OP or her friend took time to calm the daughter & the dog down, but tried to "force" them to be OK with each other, which didn´t happen.

The dog sniffed the child so the child screamed. The dog merely joined in the fun game "I can make more noise than you".

Vallhala-i didn't at first want to be identified but will do so.

The situation need calming right there and then, if the child had of seen the mother play with the dog through the window then she may have calmed down. The ideal because it is a good friend and i take it that they want to remain so would have then been to go for a walk or the park if possible. Both child and dog would then associate the meeting as something to look forward to, the same psychology works for both dogs and small children. The problem with not training the dog to not be excitable as some have said is, life changes, children do come along, people get ill and that is why dogs have to be rehomed.

"If I inivite a guest then I do not allow my ds to bounce off the sofa's or blow a whistle continously."

But allowing your DS to scream at your host's very small dog because the dog is sniffing at him would be okay, would it? It would be fine to allow that to continue when you couldn't calm your child and instead of removing the child from the vicinity of the resident dog (who, remember, cannot sniff and bark at the same time, it's physically impossible), you would expect the dog to be banished in his and your host's own home?

Nope, I still don't get it.

I find it bizarre that when people's dogs behave in an undesirable way when they have visitors, they first instinct is to shut the dog out of the room instead of training the dog to behave appropriately around visitors. What a nuisance to have to shut the dog out of a room when people come and visit!

OP Perhaps if you want to change the way your daughter is around dogs (although she may well just grow out of it) you could get in touch with Pets As Therapy. They have well socialised dogs that are volunteered by their owners, who go along with them to 'appointments' specifically to help in cases like this, where a child may be nervous of dogs and want to get used to them, or the parent wants them to. They will match an appropriate dog for your situation.

In your friend's case I wonder if she'd be open to having her dog on a lead next time you visit so yoru daughter feels safer as the dog can't get to her and then your friend can keep the dog firmly by her side and intermittently give her treats so the dog learns being near your friend is good when there are visitors as she gets treats, and visitors don't say hello, don't have treats, don't scream and are in fact, pretty boring. Once the dog will lay down quietly and your daughter is more used to dogs/this dog, perhaps you can progress from there?

If you cuddle the child or lift it -as naturally you would for a 2yo- does that make the dog react(worse).I remember a tragic case a few years back, and I appreciate alot of what is printed in the press is crap selective regarding dog attacks,involving a toddler. Children playing in garden with relatives Canine Satan large dog and one of the older children carried out the toddler which the dog pulled out of his arms.
My DD used to beg me to lift her if their were dogs but I was mindful of this and cruelly refused

My dog hardly ever barks but does bark when someone comes in the house. If the people settle down and get on with what they are there to do he then wanders off and ignores them.

If they flap about and make a fuss he gets stressed and is more likely to approach them and maybe to bark again.

I tend to put him outside or into another room in these circumstances for his sake as well as the guests, even though it is really the guest who is causing the problem. If you are scared of dogs, or only 2, then logic is not always an option.

It does irk me a bit sometimes, more from the point of view that these flappy guests then suggest that the dog is at fault, when he is perfectly well behaved if they are.

If the guest apologises and thanks me for putting the dog elsewhere then I don't mind at all. I do realise that even though I know he won't hurt them that is no use if you have a phobia.

I feel childrens reactions to dogs is to do with upbringing.If you constantly pick your kid up or allow them to hide behind you everytime a dog walks past then they are not going to know how to behave around them.There is nothing more annoying than seeing a child afraid of every dog walks past! I see it all the time in the woods when walking my dogs...and sometimes it is adults ffs.

My point is that the OP's dd wasn't going to calm down whilst the dog was still around, so the screaming child is just encouraging the barking..... and it's a viscious circle. I think removing the dog for 10 mins, and calming the child and then bringing the back in a controlled manner would have been the answer. And lets not forget that this child is only 2!!

I was petrified of dogs as a child, except my own (a daschund by coincidence) and my Nans grumpy and snappy westie. My worst childhood memory is of being chased by a blind daschund at 4yrs old. I was yelling for my mum and of course he was following the noise!! I'm ok-ish now, but can still be wary of unknown dogs.

My nearly 5yr old dd on the other hand adores all dogs, and now wants a greyhound having met a lady that rescues them at the park the other day!!! I was thinking of replacing our much cocker that we lost 2 years ago with another cocker.......

Op, I really hope the experience hasn't put your dd off too much, you have to "socialise" her with a few dogs iykwim!

Harrassed, I'd suggest the Greyhound from a Retired Greyhound Trust rescue to be the better of the 2 choices with a 5 yo personally. :)

I'd agree given how nutty our cocker was until he got poorly!

She has totally fallen in love though, it's very sweet. We're up the park everyday, not for the swings but with the hope she bumps in the "hound lady".

Unfortunately not in the position for a dog at the moment, I'm working too many hours at present. Plus we have a young cat!!!

Just don't visit inconsiderate and selfish dog owners. No real loss anyway.

Putting the dog in another room in a situation like that is similar to turning off the TV etc when you have visitors. Polite people make compromises to make visitors comfortable.

The other kind are best left alone with their best friend.

I have a huge dog who is an utter softy, (he's a smooth coated lurcher) and some kids are like 'wow he's a horse ' and others are terrified. Either way, I am very clear with him, he stands with me and depending on the kid either gets sent to his bed or will stand and be cuddled. I am inclined to agree with the posters who err on the 'pecking order' theory. It sounds like your daughter was being OTT, but if I were in that situation as a dog owner, I would remove my dog as I would not want to deal with my dog potentially snapping or god forbid biting the child. The only time my dog has ever even growled at a little un was when one was literally attempting to mount him like a pony, even then he growled, turned tail and stalked to his bed in disgust.On a slightly different note I am always astonished when parents in the park just let their kids approach my dog without checking with me.... at the end of the day, no dog is ever 100% and people need to accept that.ramble over!

Don't get me wrong; if it had been my dog, I'd certainly be taking what happened as a sign that it needed more socialisation, and to be taught how to behave around visitors/kids.

It's just that I don't get the impression that the OP's visit was necessarily the time or the place. If I wasn't as doggie as I am, and I'd taken one of my kids round to see a friend and the situation in the OP had happened, I wouldn't have been overly impressed if the owner of the dog had said "Right, we need to sort this... OK, let's do XYZ". I'd have thought "Well actually I only wanted to come round for a coffee and a catch up..."

It depends on the friend, the child and the situation. Yes if it were one of my equally doggy friends, we'd have definitely BOTH set to and tried to start sorting it - but some people just wouldn't want to do that and if that's the case, then yeah the child comes first. If it's getting distressed then it's better IMO to put the dog away for now, and work on socialisation later on, in a planned/controlled situation with a more dog-savvy child.

And if I were the OP I'd be finding some nice calm dogs for my child to mix with so that they were no longer bothered by excitable, barky, sniffy ones.

I just think the dog/child combo in the OP wasn't conducive to helping either of them.

I don't think it's in any way good for the kids not to be socialised with animals and get hysterical when they see a dog. But your friend is VERY unreasonable if she suggest that the undesireable behavour of the dog (barking) should be awarder (by "proper greeting" i.e attention by the person being barked at). This would have been an excellent opportunity to train the dog NOT to sniff unless allowed and not to bark at guests - Valhalla gave some great tips here.

I have two young dogs who get very excited when we have guests, but sit and wait quietly until the guests decide to greet them and are certainly not allowed to jump or bark at them. Just takes some time and effort, but it is certainly not impossible to achieve.

Valhalla on a different tangent, when I was at work NHS health, I visited a lady and her huge dog kept standing between her and me.Protective or what?She wouldn't/couldn't put it in another room so I had to work with this Hound sitting on the sofa leering at me.I'm not scared of dogs but in hindsight I should have left.
I'm not that scary that my little old ladies need ScoobyDoo sized bodyguards

Notsohotanymore - I don't think that's necessarily true. My ds for example is petrified of spiders and bees. But I am fine with them and even pick spiders up to show ds they are not harmful. But he has a fear and although I play it down a lot of the time "he's not interested in you, look at the size of him he's tiny!", I still need to have some respect for his fear.

Minnieheehee, I 100% agree. I don't get it when dog owners are actually offended when you are wary of their dogs around your kids. All this talk of socialising kids with dogs....I have the opposite problem, ds is happy to go running up to any dog and shower them with love, I have had to teach him to be cautious. I always ask the owner and even after that I am cautious because you can't completely trust a stranger's word either! So as much as I don't want ds to be fearful of dogs, I have made it very clear to him that dogs can - and do - bite.

All this talk of animal behaviour...lets turn it around. A 2 year old is screaming because of HER natural instincts, as humans we flee or fight in a potentially dangerous situation! So how about trying to understand this 2 year old child instead of how the dog might be feeling put out because it's HIS house.

If a 2 year old is feeling scared, she can't always be reasoned with and the situation needs to be dealt with in a different way. Imagine being a 2 year old, with that limited amount of knowledge, experience and understanding, being confronted by a barking creature towering over you.

Thanks Valhala - I'll try that. Luckily all of our friends are dog-friendly.

If your child came to my home and screamed at my dog, and then you demanded my dog was booted out of a room in HIS house... there would be only one (plus small person) person leaving the house... neither would be furry or own a tail. Rights and wrongs of dog ownership aside - demanding what someone else does in their home, to, what is to them a very valued family member (sooooo nice to judge and sneer at those with pets when you've got, or can have kids btw - always makes you look delightful)... ain't on.

Don't like the dog - meet up on neutral ground... simples. Don't like my dog or cat - you ain't welcome in my house, same as if I didn't like your child I wouldn't be welcome in yours.

ALso very nicely teaching the 2 year old that screaming = dog removed btw.

whethergirl agree with your fear theories - I have adult friends who just don't like dogs (ie are actually scared of them) and I have to accept this and either leave my dog at home or arrange to meet them somewhere. A couple will now come to my house, but only because my dog will lie on his bed and ignore them - even if they are usually glancing over looking worried every so often.
The onus is on the owner to manage their dog and the parents to do exactly what you're doing, encourage the child to manage their fear and/or act appropriately. On a lighter note I was utterly charmed this morning by a tiny little American girl who asked me in the park 'excuse me maam may I pet your puppy' given Seamus is about 135 cm at the shoulder I couldnt help but chuckle....mind you most things are bigger in the US....

whethergirl, it was a dachshund though, bit difficult for it to tower over anything :o

If a child gets hysterical and is screaming around a very small dog, then the child shouldn't be visiting houses with dogs until she can behave appropriately around them. I'm not surprised the dog was barking at a child screaming and panicking. That would freak out most dogs. If she is like that she isn't safe to be around dogs.

I have four dogs who exhibit what I think is normal behaviour, i.e. they will bark when someone is at the door, but stop as soon as the person walks in, they are friendly and go up to visitors to say hello (but don't jump up) and will stay in the room with visitors at which time they settle on the sofa (because we allow them to), however if my visitors are scared, disgusted or in any way upset by this behaviour, the dogs do have a 'go upstairs' command. They are asked to go to the top of the stairs and stay there, they can see the visitor from there, they are not completely excluded but I also appreciate that not everyone likes dogs in their face.

When young children visit, I ask the dogs to go directly upstairs with a treat, then if the parents of the child are agreeable, I allow one dog at a time to come down say hello and go back up again. If all goes well and the child is not upset (and equally does not upset the dogs!!) they are all allowed down. To be honest I think dog owners need to be a bit more flexible and accommodating around young children to give the child a chance to adjust to the dog. Having said that we have a lot of friends with children who are used to dogs who don't need these precautions.

Finally (and sorry for the essay) there is one thing that does bug me and this is friends who know we have 4 house dogs and come to stay over for a few days and expect us to banish the dogs in the garden. If you are that afraid or disgusted by dogs, book yourself a hotel! I can accommodate your freas/problems for a couple of hours but not for a couple of days!

Op i think it bad that she was not able to stop her dog from barking or able to keep it away from your daughter . I own a big gentle dog , i would not allow it to bark at children or annoy guests in any way .

Why do people not train their dogs properly ? Despite havin my own dog that i love a lot , i do not let it jump on me, bark at me , scratch me or snatch food off me or drink out of my cup , yet i am frequently expected to put up with other peoples pets doing this. The attitude that some people have , ie , if you dont like it , dont come , well quite , i dont .

I think it rude and bad manners . I would not have let my toddlers climb and jump all over someone , i just dont get it .If you freind cant or wont control her dog you might be best to meet somewhere neutral .