To wish that schools wouldn't reward children for things they have no control over

[dealer]

Attendance, they give out certificates for 100% attendance each half term. Ds would occasionally have a day off for illness, dd1 hasn't had a day off since reception, she's in year 4. Ds wasn't assed, dd1 has mild sn and despite the fact that I tell her that she's really lucky to be so healthy, loves getting up in assembly for the certificates and feels it's an achievement.

They've now changed it, since it wasn't 'fair' and you will now only get a certificate for most improved attendance. Dd1 wants to know how to get one of these. Not sure how you improve on 5 years 100%.

And I hate it when they award class attendance, so the poor kid who has genuine health problems or parents who aren't very good at getting them there, get highlighted as bringing the class percentage down.

Walk to school week soon. We used to walk to school all the time when I was a sahm because we live 10 mins from the school. Now though, I work as a delivery driver so it's somewhat essential to take my vehicle with me. I need to drop dd2 at nursery 4 miles away 10 minutes later now as well, since the school nursery had no room for her.

Dd2 will be in school in September, so I could in theory walk them then and then go back for the van. But that would utterly pointless since I would then drive the van straight past the school again, same polution etc, and waste 20 mins work time.

Doesn't stop dd1 waving 'walk to school' leaflets at me, and telling me she needs to earn stickers though. Pointing out great facts such as car occupants are exposed to 3 times as much pollution on the school run as walkers. Don't really understand that since they're only in the car for 2 mins.

They usually walk home, but apparently that doesn't count.

Anyway it's all arbitrary stuff that kids are supposed to be motivated to do that they can't do anything about.

If a child has longterm health problems that necessitate time off school, the school should take that it into account. It wouldn't be hard to have a system whereby most kids get a certificate only by achieving 100% attendance and certain kids get a certificate for a % to be agreed with the parents (or for whatever they manage - the teachers wouldn't need to spell this out).

It is silly and very U to stop other children getting something because your own child isn't able to achieve it, but it isn't U to expect special circumstances to be taken into account.

A girl in DD's class got a special reward for turning up to school each day even if she was late. She had lots of family problems so there was obviously reasons behind this arrangement - it didn't bother my dd in the slightest or anyone else in the class so far as I know.

My own DD has never got the award because we do the odd duvet day and she gets bronchial problems when she has a cold. She would like a certificate but isn't that bothered about it, and I am fine with other children getting them because their attendance is better than DD's.

DS can't even get new shoes without 2 appointments with orthotics - and we get solittle flexibiliyt with the appointments we can't often get them in school hols - shoe shopping at weekends isn't an option open to us.

If a child is going to get a lecture from the head about absence when it's for essential medical appointments then they are at the wrong school and the head is in the wrong job!

I hate my school doing this as I have had kids in my class with illness absence that is a life time condition and they will never get attendance award. On the walk to school week I made the school have the teacher on morning duty do a few laps of the plyground with those kids that can not walk in s they all had their go kinetic cards stamped and could all win prize if they chose to join in. We do have some kids that enter EVERY competition and the new HT always chooses them to win as their enteries are good but the rest of the staff know they have a LOT of help from parents but she thinks it looks good as pics are often in local paper, we would rather support a child that has tried hard even if it is not great but don't have much choice. It is as fustrating for the staff as for the other parents and when they complain we send them staright to the HT, hopefully she will have to listen to them soon.

I'm a teacher and we have Walk On Wednesdays. The results of the initiative go towards a 'sustainable travel' award so the pressure for children to walk comes from the Borough and beyond, not necessarily the school.

There are children in my class who live far too far to walk to school. If they did walk they would be late... Catch 22. I do feel sorry for them, so I encourage them to see if mum/dad/carer can park the car a little further away that day and so walk some of the journey rather than door to door car.

My dd got one of those 100% attendance certs. last year. I was thrilled, because we managed to get her there every day despite her grumbling about mysterious ailments that disappeared once we left the house. My ds didn't get one because he has a lot of hospital appointments as he had a serious illness some years ago. I didn't feel that this was unfair on him about not getting a cert. He wasn't there 100% of the time so why should he? He wins other things. When he was ill he was always the one to win the prize at anything we went to - sympathy vote!
You win some you lose some in life. We are so lucky that he is now healthy, everything else is a doddle.
I tell them that life isn't actually fair and how we deal with it is the most important thing.

blu I suppose its just because my DD is soooo consciensious, and amazing at sport, and really clever, she goes in every day whether she has a sniffle or not... and she watches her friends whose mum's don't work, turn up at school to drop their sibling off then head home with mum for a nice day on the sofa..
At her school they don't celebrate winning a sports day event because a boy in the year above has polio, or good attendance, or always doing your homework (because lots of the children's parents just leave it un-done in the book bag and apparently my DD is at an unfair advantage because she has parents who support her with her homework..) so it's all work, no reward for her. Hence why we introduced attendance rewards from us for her and DSD.
That is why I agreed with it, but having heard some stories on here, I see it is unfair on a lot of children and so I concede, I was wrong. I suppose we all just want our children to be recognised for their own individual efforts.

Even if you made a class of healthiest children there would be some who are brilliant at maths but rubbish at sports, some who are brilliant at sports but rubbish at English, some who are brilliant at English and rubbish at maths (and any other combination you could think of). Those children being awarded for what they can do, what they work hard to do is not a problem and should be recognised.

When you add in children with long term illness or disabilities you still have some children who are better at some subjects than others. Children who have a lot of sickness are likely to work hard to make up for it - as a few of us have stated our children do - they might do really well at a subject and get awards for it. That is in their power to do, to have "their" subject they can work at. Those children should still be recognised for what they can do.

Attendance is out of their control and always will be. It's not going to be a one off, it's for the 13 years they're at school. They have to know they're being punished for their health. They have to know they're letting their class/ friends down by being ill and they can't and never will be able to do something about it.

Hi Pick I'm glad you've taken on the points that other posters have made re how attendance awards can have a negative impact.

I truly hope you don't think your child is "at an unfair advantage because she has parents who support her with her homework".

I'm sorry that you feel your daughter is not being encouraged by your school, you haven't said that directly but it is inferred.

Have you talked to the teachers/head re your concerns?

I think that all the points made about long term illness/disability making attendance certificates unfair are very valid.

BUT

Nobody has looked at it from the other side; where truly disadvantaged primary school aged children make huge personal efforts to get to school without the aid of their parents.

I have only worked in one school that used attendance certificates. The school was on the most deprived council estates in the city. The majority of the children walked to school alone. Many skived off on the way and never arrived, others had got themselves up and got themselves to school. The certificates worked well as an incentive for those in the first bracket and a reward for those in the second, for whom getting to school was not just a matter of good health and was very much an achievement.

Couple of individual cases:

1. Child aged 9 was picked up by police 4 times in a fortnight truanting from school. Mum had no idea he wasn't going to school and probably didn't care either way.
2. Child aged 10 with siblings in the school aged 6 and 8. Mum really cared about them but started work in a nearby supermarket at 6am to support them. Oldest child got all 3 of them up, dressed, fed and walked to school on time every day.
3. Child aged 8 who was the only child who lived across the main road from the estate. She had a baby brother and a mum who didn't like getting up early. After a period of very poor attendance she relentlessly nagged and begged at her mum to get up and take her to school each morning.

If children like that achieve 100% attendance then those certificates have been earned and count as a true achievement!

All of these examples are probably on the extreme end (but no more so than children who miss large amounts of school through disability)

That's why a few of us have said that personal achievement awards are better (like you'd get at work!) or discounting the sick days of a longterm sick or disabled child.

Personal achievements for example:

A disabled child who keeps taking their glasses off and losing them (like my nephew, the two aren't related but he hates them so keeps losing them) being awarded for keeping for keeping them on all week without the teacher having to remind them.

A child who has a problem with attendance being awarded for their attendance.

Having a blanket 100% certificate reminds a child like the ones talked about here that they're never going to keep up. When you have to keep them off they're thinking about their % when you have to take them to the consultant they know they're missing out. Added in class attendance awards and you have a sick child letting the class down. Added to life's not fair because they're ill and not fair because they don't get the certificates it's also not fair because they're bullied for being ill. As someone liked to point out further up - sick and disabled children have something more important to worry about than certificates...

Yeah, I do agree that having class attendance records are appalling and will just encourage bullying.

I think the personal achievement certificates are great up until about age 6 or 7. But Juniors (SEN excluded) will roll their eyes and see straight through our attempts at recognising individuals in that way.

I've seen it work in junior school and it works in workplaces. If it was something easy that they do anyway then it might look like an attempt to get everyone a certificate, but sitting down with them and setting the right targets, in discussion with them about what they need to be working on, shouldn't.

How's this for ridiculous:

A friend's school was awarding prizes to children who had walked to school every day during Walk To School Week.

Her dc did not get a prize, despite walking to and from school every day, because that was their normal way of getting to and from school. Only those who did not normally walk to school every day were eligible.

Other children, who did not necessarily walk to school every day that week, but walked home every day, did not get a prize - because it was Walk To School Week! Yet many of the prize-winners went home by car.

Mad.

OP, YANBU.

Thanks manic. I felt intuitively that there must be kids in that bracket, after all it's perfectly possible for a normal urban 8 yr old to get themselves to school if their DPs are hung over/post-natally depressed/at work, so it's good to have confirmation that this is the case (well, not good, bloody depressing, but better than the children not going to school).

I get what you are saying manic but I feel very uncomfortable about the idea of a 100% certificate in those circumstances.

Kids shouldnt have to cope with those things. A bit of paper isnt going anyway to relieving them.

Why should they have to battle to school to get their certificate? Some kids should get a medal for turning up twice a week.

What about the ones who are not superhuman? They must feel like crap. If Johnny with the smack head mum can get to school everyday, why cant I with my disabled mum make it? I must be really shit.

confuddled, I get your point about individual achievements. BUT I am genuinely wondering about the importance of attendance certificates in all your children's schools. Are they really ranked so highly that people get upset about them? At my dds' school they started doing them a couple of years ago, I'm not even sure they still do them now or if they've been forgotten about.

They do an Achievement assembly once a week where 2 children from each class are given a special mention and certificate for achieving something notiecable. It can be anything - academic, sport, good behaviour, kindness etc. That's something that goes right across the board and poor attendance doesn't come into it. Do they not do something similar at other schools?

Children who are off sick, long-term or otherwise, should not be made to feel bad. Does that really go on?

Mrs de vere, the point of the certificate for the really struggling children is not that it's an end in itself, or will make up for the crap, but that it is a way of getting them into school against the odds, which is for their long term benefit.

There are more marginal cases too. If you're a struggling / crap mum then getting yourself, and baby up then nagging 6 year old, feeding them breakfast, nagging them into their clothes and dragging them out the door can seem insuperable. Whereas if you're confronted with a child who's made themselves a bowl of cereal and is standing there in their uniform with their book bag then that can make all the difference.

I don't know for certain what the right answer is on this one, whether the attendance benefits outweigh the unfairness, but I do object to all the people on this thread saying that primary aged children have zero influence on their own attendance because it's simply incorrect.

Sorry Dilys but nothing is going to convince me these things are a good idea.
There are other ways to get kids into school.

That may well be true of course, mrs de vere, I'm not saying that they're the best thing to do - I can't say whether the benefits outweigh the downsides. I'm simply disputing the assertion that they have no positive effects.

Dancer, the answer can already be read in this thread.

Yes, children with disabilities or long term sick do want to get on as well as the other children, they do feel like they're missing out on something important when they're sick or at appointments. When teachers are drilling into them how important their attendance is they're aware of not being there - they're not naughty children who don't care if they're not there, they're already feeling not normal for all their time off sick. When it's class awards and a sick child is letting the class down it's hard on them because they know they're the reason and it's hard on the class because they know they're the reason and that leads to bullying. Do you not believe the stories on this thread? Do you think we're exaggerating?

We the parents get letters home telling us about our children's attendance, lectures on how the days add up. I would do anything for her to be healthy. I'd swap my lack of stretch marks for her to have an extra month or two in the womb. I'd trade every discomfort of 9 months pregnant to keep her in long enough to not be so sick.

My daughter won't even ask her teacher for her ventolin or laxatives if they don't offer - I've had to tell them to look for signs of tiredness and not to take it for granted she's tired and to give it to her when she goes out. Why? Because she wants to be normal. She's 4, if she wasn't premature she'd still be at nursery yet she's desperately trying to make herself appear normal, even if it makes her ill, even if she spends the afternoon and evening on the sofa with her thumb in her mouth because her body is too exhausted.

Well of course that's awful and I can see why it's such a sore point with you.

Have you talked to the Head about this? You raise some v valid points but unless the school knows, they can't change things.

I only know first hand about things at my dds' school: yes attendance is important, attendance certificates are given out (or used to be I'm not sure), but children who are off sick are in no way made to feel like 2nd class citizens. On the contrary, they are given a lot of support. One Year 1 child recently had a lot of time off for a leg operation and when she came back she was in a wheelchair for a while and then walked with a frame. From what I could see, the school was hugely supportive of the situation.

Perhaps what is needed is for the school to reassure children that it's ok to be off sick for however long is needed. But it's not ok to take time off school for other reasons. It could be re-iterated in assemblies.

Haven't read the thread yet but I completely agree with the OP, especially about the attendence award. and I always thing 'so what?' when people bang on about how they never had a day off sick at school/work. Well, bully for them, if they've never been ill, but it's luck not an achievement.

Of course the idea is to shame to people who are shirkers and how take way too much time off without good reason. But it throws the baby out with the bathwater somewhat by seeming reward consistent good health, which is totally down to luck.

I had a meeting at work on Thursday. Due to cutbacks we are not to be paid for the first three days of sickness.
So I am sure 100% attendance will go up.

Unfortunately most of us work directly with vunerable children.

The stats on sickness will look fab.

So thats ok then.

Fellatio, I hate that whole smuggity smug 'I've never had a day off sick, I just get on with it attitude too', seems some here are also putting that on to their DC. Actually, it's because they are lucky enough never to have had the level of sickness to have to take a day off. When they know what that feels like - for them or for their DC - then they might understand how it can feel, and begin to understand how the whole attendance award thing may feel to a chronically sick DC.