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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to think if our debt is joint, our income should be handled jointly too?

77 replies

Lloydloom · 09/05/2011 13:46

please be gentle, it's my first go and I really need some help! I'm lost with what to do!
I am employed in a job that involves a lot of driving, but have degenerative disc disease in my lower spine which now makes my job impossible. My company have an insurance policy which covers 2/3 of my wages till I'm 65. I'm 40, and went off sick in 2007. My (enormous) company haven't offered me any alternative employment, and apart from being made redundant, which is unlikely but possible, I don't really see any changes to the situation. I do however have to go for regular and increasingly invasive reassessments and treatment. Invariably, the insurer says I'm cured/able to work, then I appeal with the use of expert medical opinion/MRI scans etc and I win, and the payments are reinstated. It's very stressful and a pain in the neck (literally).

I reckon that the insurer would be fairly interested in settling the claim once and for all. It's anyone's guess how their actuaries work out a settlement offer, but I reckon I'd roughly be offered a figure that happens to be about twice our outstanding mortgage. But my income would of course stop, meaning I would be reliant on my husband for everything. He is a high earner but as a result of some experiences he had before we met, he runs his financial affairs totally separately to mine. I know what his salary is, but nothing about his shares/bonuses etc.

Anyway (I'm coming to the point) I could pay off our entire mortgage and rely on my DH, and put the remainder towards a bigger house, or the DC's education, etc.

AIBU to think that if I've settled the mortgage, DH should also change the way he looks at things, allowing me access to his current account and essentially our only source of income? He says he wants to keep things the same and he will pay me an allowance. It's not the amount of an allowance which is the issue for me, it's the fact that it seems that our debts are joint but 'our family' income isn't.

We have one account jointly which we both paid proportional amounts into, but I arranged a direct debit off it without his agreement and he went mad and keeps saying that "the trust is ruined" because of this. (It was for £30 a week for our cleaner.) He now no longer pays into it. Instead we sit down at the end of the month for "reparation" and work out who has paid for what, and then balance things.

He doesn't really like it that I'm at home with our 3 young children AND yet still have my own income as he says it makes me respect his role less - he wants to be the sole breadwinner/man-of-the-house. Whilst I saw the option of a settlement and huge cash injection as a positive thing, he seems very negative about it.

I love him to bits but this is tearing me apart. I'm the mother of his children, his wife, and he still thinks I might rip him off. We had a terrible row a few months ago and nearly split up and I said in the heat of it that if we ever broke up, I'd have the kids, and the shirt off his back. He's taken that very badly and seems to be trying to protect himself from financial disaster, when actually this could be a really exciting fun time for us.

I'm so sad and sick with worry about how it's affecting us. What should I do?

OP posts:

BelovedCunt · 09/05/2011 13:48

he is being a cock. can you both talk to someone to work a solution out? arguing over money will the death of your relationship.

Honeydragon · 09/05/2011 13:50

Take the settlement, invest some live of a little and let him pay the mortgage and your allowance, then he can provide for everyone. Then should he continue to be a dick about this you have enough to leave.

Sarsaparilllla · 09/05/2011 13:56

YANBU, why should you pay off the joint mortgage and not jointly have access to other money?

Could you go to relate for councelling about how to deal with realtionship finances?

stream · 09/05/2011 13:57

If you're given the settlement, take some independent financial advice about it.

It's meant to be your earnings for the rest of your working life , isn't it? So it's really important to do the right thing with it.

ChunkyPickle · 09/05/2011 14:00

Since he treats the family finances in such a business-like way, could you do the same? ie. Pay off the mortgage (no point giving the bank more interest than you need to) but treat it as an investment so if he currently pays half the mortgage, he now pays that money to you?

So you become the person lending the money for the house and getting the interest rather than the bank IYSWIM?

Original poster

Lloydloom · 09/05/2011 14:01

BC, I'd love us to go for counselling about this. I've told him that I'm being effectively punished for something that someone else did, and he acknowledges that's unfair. He's terrified of financial disaster and of us losing our home so I thought he'd be pleased. Instead it's a bone of contention. I've thought so hard about it all that I can't see straight.
He wants me at home with the kids, but for him to be the breadwinner, yet also wants the money I bring in. He always makes a lot of the fact that I haven't 'earned' it through work.Yet he agrees that my being a SAHM is work too. He wants the mortgage paid off more than anything, yet isn't willing to put our finances jointly! I'm so confused! I was hoping to reach a different conclusion than cockish behaviour but daft you might be right.

OP posts:

Imnotaslimjim · 09/05/2011 14:01

If he is being so funny about money, I certainly wouldn't be paying off a join mortgage with your money. At most I would pay off half of the remaining balance. But to be honest with you, I would even do that, I would keep the payment in a bank and have it as an income. tough luck if he doesn't like that you have an income even if you aren't working. You are disabled, it isn't your fault you can't do your job

I hope you manage to get it sorted out soon

DoMeDon · 09/05/2011 14:03

It is awful that he acts as though you might rip him off. Sounds as if he needs to address his past and come to terms with it to move forward.

Money can be such a huge thing if you have been ripped off in the past. Your comment will have reinforced his insecurity that you are after his money. Added to that he sounds confused about his own attitude - he wants to be responsible for you all but also wants to be seperate

Everyone has different attitudes to money and all the time you are polar opposities on this issue it will cause problems. Could you go to relate together to talk this through?

SardineQueen · 09/05/2011 14:05

I simply don't understand people who behave as your husband is. i literally cannot see where they are coming from.

I think that YANBU in the slightest but he clearly has a bee in his bonnet and I don't know what to suggest about that.

What i find most strange is that he says that he wants you to be at home without an income, but refuses to meet you on the way you would want to run that. OTOH when you are earning, he doesn't like that either. So he wants you to be not earning, and also that he controls how much you can spend? That's just really strange.

Original poster

Lloydloom · 09/05/2011 14:05

Chunkypickle, that's kind of what he suggested. However he said that if I had no income then my contribution to the household expenses would go and he would have to cover all that. He suggested that he pay me his share of the mortgage payment less a deduction for household bills.

OP posts:

DoMeDon · 09/05/2011 14:06

X-post!

Is he a cock other ways? If not then this may be just an area where he cannot see sense due to his past. It is so easy to say what the right thing is if you aren't confused. I think it is expecting too much for him to be reasonable about this when he doesn't seem to undersatnd it himself. Ultimately you have to follow your instincts. If he WILL not talk it through and you cannot come to a compromise then you have to do what is safe for you.

speculationisrife · 09/05/2011 14:07

He sounds very confused, I think. He says 'the trust is ruined', but actually, he, owing to previous experiences with someone else, can't trust you. I think it's really sad (I mean that genuinely, not as in pathetic) that this issue is getting in the way of your family life, and I think you should seek some counselling either together, or him alone, and also some financial advice. He does sound quite troubled.

DoMeDon · 09/05/2011 14:09

The problem with paying you his share of the mortgage is that if things did go wrong, the mortgage is paid off and in joint names so he would be entitled to half the house. That is unfair on you.

Original poster

Lloydloom · 09/05/2011 14:09

Gosh I'm so relieved it's not me seeing things back to front! He IS odd about money particularly in relation to security. I think even if we won the euro millions he would still play the script in his head that says that we could lose everything. I'm going to ask him again about seeing someone.

OP posts:

speculationisrife · 09/05/2011 14:09

x-post Lloydloom. That sounds like a very convoluted way to go about things. Agree with DoMeDon that you need to protect yourself, as he sounds quite irrational. I would worry that if this situation led to a split, I'd be left with very little to live on and support my children.

VajazzHands · 09/05/2011 14:10

I don't mean this in a nasty way- but he seems to be seperating himnself form your family financial so I wouldn't feel safe paying off the mortgage and leaving myself without.

I think you shoudl take your settlement invest it or put it in the bank or something but keep it as "your" money in case something happens

fedupofnamechanging · 09/05/2011 14:12

He doesn't trust you and has no respect for you either. I couldn't live with a man like this tbh. I take the view that when you get married, you become a unit and everything belongs to the both of you equally. I am a SAHM and hell would freeze over before I allowed my husband to pay me an allowance and keep the rest of his income hidden from me. That's outrageous behaviour.

I would tell him that this has to stop now. That income is to be paid into a joint account and shared. If my husband didn't agree to that, then I'd sell the house , split the profit and make my own arrangements as a single woman.

If you don't want to go down that route, then get your legal share in the house increased to reflect the fact that you are paying off the mortgage (if you decide to do so) and get him to pay 'rent' to you.

Tbh though, you are in a marriage, not a business arrangement and if you are good enough to have sex with and have children with, then you are good enough to be an equal partner.

Original poster

Lloydloom · 09/05/2011 14:13

Domedon, is he a cock in other ways? As a rule, no. We've been under tremendous strain lately with family stuff and I got sick of hearing "it's not fair" in relation to being asked to do anything at all around the house, but I don't think he's massively unusual there.

The bit about what if we split up is troubling. I really don't want that, but it's like his worst fear is to lose everything and he's inadvertently creating that by behaving in this way with me.

OP posts:

pippop1 · 09/05/2011 14:13

Could you buy a property with the payout and then rent it out? That way you are still receiving an income and can feel in charge? Property to be in your name only of course.

ChunkyPickle · 09/05/2011 14:15

In isolation that sounds fine - just like if you'd invested it and used that as your income, you have to pay the bills out of it.

The problem is that he's not seeing you looking after the children as an expense which requires paying for, so you end up with nothing more than your investment income doing all the childcare, and he has all his income, with no childcare, when really these things should be 50/50 - if he can't do 50% of the childcare then he needs to give up 50% of what he earns to you for doing it.

DoMeDon · 09/05/2011 14:16

People make their worst fears come true all the time - it is self-fulfilling prophecy. Sounds like he needs help to realise he will lose everything becasue of him not you. Relate is my best suggestion - Hope it works out

MainlyMaynie · 09/05/2011 14:17

Don't pay off the mortgage! That leaves you extremely vulnerable to his excessive control. TBH, I wouldn't go for the settlement at the minute, as you aren't really in a position where it is worth it. He is behaving like a real bully over this and it would be a very major issue for me. The things you say make him sound very controlling, does that come across in other areas of your life?

VajazzHands · 09/05/2011 14:20

Agree with pippop1

Original poster

Lloydloom · 09/05/2011 14:31

Pippip1, if I bought a property (or an annuity) then we'd still have the mortgage which I'd still have to pay my share of. I wouldn't end up any better off I think. I'll do some figures and chew that one over though.

Is he controlling in other ways? No not really - he likes his own way about some things but no, he's not (my understanding of) a controlling person.

OP posts:

Original poster

Lloydloom · 09/05/2011 14:38

Am having a good sob now. Thanks tons for listening to me about this. It's so hard to see straight. It does sound as though a settlement might not be the right thing at the moment, but it also seems to me like an opportunity missed too. I wish he could be excited and make happy plans, but it always comes back to this awful "that's mine, this is yours" thing. Whenever we discuss money he brings up how much he put in vs my contribution. I joke and say "so only the top floor is mine?" but it's more serious than that maybe. So sad.

OP posts:

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