to think if our debt is joint, our income should be handled jointly too?

[Lloydloom]

please be gentle, it's my first go and I really need some help! I'm lost with what to do!
I am employed in a job that involves a lot of driving, but have degenerative disc disease in my lower spine which now makes my job impossible. My company have an insurance policy which covers 2/3 of my wages till I'm 65. I'm 40, and went off sick in 2007. My (enormous) company haven't offered me any alternative employment, and apart from being made redundant, which is unlikely but possible, I don't really see any changes to the situation. I do however have to go for regular and increasingly invasive reassessments and treatment. Invariably, the insurer says I'm cured/able to work, then I appeal with the use of expert medical opinion/MRI scans etc and I win, and the payments are reinstated. It's very stressful and a pain in the neck (literally).

I reckon that the insurer would be fairly interested in settling the claim once and for all. It's anyone's guess how their actuaries work out a settlement offer, but I reckon I'd roughly be offered a figure that happens to be about twice our outstanding mortgage. But my income would of course stop, meaning I would be reliant on my husband for everything. He is a high earner but as a result of some experiences he had before we met, he runs his financial affairs totally separately to mine. I know what his salary is, but nothing about his shares/bonuses etc.

Anyway (I'm coming to the point) I could pay off our entire mortgage and rely on my DH, and put the remainder towards a bigger house, or the DC's education, etc.

AIBU to think that if I've settled the mortgage, DH should also change the way he looks at things, allowing me access to his current account and essentially our only source of income? He says he wants to keep things the same and he will pay me an allowance. It's not the amount of an allowance which is the issue for me, it's the fact that it seems that our debts are joint but 'our family' income isn't.

We have one account jointly which we both paid proportional amounts into, but I arranged a direct debit off it without his agreement and he went mad and keeps saying that "the trust is ruined" because of this. (It was for £30 a week for our cleaner.) He now no longer pays into it. Instead we sit down at the end of the month for "reparation" and work out who has paid for what, and then balance things.

He doesn't really like it that I'm at home with our 3 young children AND yet still have my own income as he says it makes me respect his role less - he wants to be the sole breadwinner/man-of-the-house. Whilst I saw the option of a settlement and huge cash injection as a positive thing, he seems very negative about it.

I love him to bits but this is tearing me apart. I'm the mother of his children, his wife, and he still thinks I might rip him off. We had a terrible row a few months ago and nearly split up and I said in the heat of it that if we ever broke up, I'd have the kids, and the shirt off his back. He's taken that very badly and seems to be trying to protect himself from financial disaster, when actually this could be a really exciting fun time for us.

I'm so sad and sick with worry about how it's affecting us. What should I do?

He is being a cock. He DOESN'T respect you as the wife of his children. If you weren't around he would have to pay someone one at the very least to provide childcare.
As long as he insists that his income is his, do not pay off the mortgage.
Take the settlement use that as your income.
Once you have kids there should be NO my money, his money. It should ALL be family money. You don't necessarily need to have joint bank accounts (we don't) but there needs to be transparency on both sides of incomings and outgoings.

My DH has a high flying career and earns about 6 times my income, but he has always been adamant that all money is "ours" and we always agree together on big purchases. He does keep his bonus but only because he knows I am fine with him doing this(he has worked very hard for them!) and he often uses his bonus not just to treat himself but to treat the whole family.
DH is far from perfect but I cannot understand why more men can't have his attitude towards money and frankly neither can he!

Someone who doesn't tell you what he earns, wants to be the breadwinner but won't share income, resents you having an income of your own (esp one you have not gone out to work for), expects you to look after the DC (which you would not be able to do if you were at work) but doesn't value that as worth half his wage is controlling.

You might not think he is controlling generally, but if he's controlling income, then he's already controlling quite a lot because let's face it, you can't do much in this life without money. Once your income is reduced or gone, he has you over a barrel.

I wouldn't pay off the mortgage. Unless the house was transferred into my name alone.

And I wouldn't be giving him access to it or information about it. I'd rather take it and invest it and live of that.

Surely when you are a family, there is no mine and yours? My kettle and your cd player. My toaster and your doormat. My telephone and your ladle. My vase and your bathtowel.

I mean, really? Isn't that flatmate attitude, not for richer for poorer for better for worse attitude?

Oh, what I mean by that is, I'd be hearing great big alarm bells and be looking to protect myself.

Well if you had enough from the rental to pay for the mortgage you'd still have ownership of the capital (ie. the property). Even if the rent exactly equalled the mortgage you would feel secure that you always had an asset of your own in reserve. You could buy something small and in the long term it should go up in value. You could do the managing yourself rather than pay an agent.

He might even find it reassuring to know that you are a SAHM but have an income-producing asset too.

I think you need some independant financial advice. Upsetting as this all is, you need to protect yourself in case at some time in the future you split up. If you pay off all or some of the mortgage, if you buy a rental property... whatever you do, if you split up then they will be part of your joint settlement. I think you need independent advice anyway to help you to decide if now is the time to go for a settlement. If he wants to go along the route of what's his is his, then similarly you need to protect what is yours as yours, because it needs to support you for a long time, and if you were at some point no longer married, you would need it.
Then worry about counselling to try to sort out his controlling and unfair attitude towards your contribution to the household.

Yes, I think independant financial advice would be a good start, don't turn down the settlement without getting it - if you don't take it now is there a time limit on it? It would be gutting not to take it and find you aren't able to at a later date if you change your mind

If you get independant financial advice, you could go alone initially or ask your husband to attend with you, for overall financial advice - maybe that route rather than financial councelling would help him to see this from your point of view?

You did say that you'd take the shirt off his back though. So it's not like he's being truly irrational.

If you pay the mortgage off and split up you will end up losing out.

I'd not pay it off until he changed.

Sorry but you would be a mug to pay it off when he is the way he is.

If you were to split you would be entitled to half of whatever he has.

entitled is one thing.. but if he is hiding assets the op wouldnt know it since she isnt made aware of his income

"He doesn't really like it that I'm at home with our 3 young children AND yet still have my own income as he says it makes me respect his role less - he wants to be the sole breadwinner/man-of-the-house"

Sounds to me like it's important to him that you are dependant on him.

Which makes it very important that you are not.

It would be interesting to see if he tried to get his hands on any money you get, tried to take it off you. I suspect he might, if he wants to make sure you are dependent on him, he would probably try to 'invest' it for you and you'd never see it again.

the longer you can keep this as income from the insurer, the better it is for you. should there be a whiff of splitting up in the air, you won't particularly want t obe caught with a pile of cash (meant to see you through to 65) which he might take a fancy to. aim for a cash settlement if he is out of the picture..
time to backpedal?

Play him at his game and be businesslike about it. If you do want to pay off the mortgage, insist a deed of trust is drawn up reflecting your disproportionate share of the equity on sale. I am guessing currently you will be joint tenants with a 50/50 share on sale; get the joint tenancy split to a tenancy in common and a deed of trust drawn up which will need to split the equity in accordance with what you've each paid, eg 70%/30% in your favour. Invest the rest in your own name and insist on a written agreement that he lays no claim to it. OK, the latter might not be strictly enforceable in the event of a split/financial settlement, but it will at least show what your respective intentions were with regard to this money, which coupled with evidence of how he conducts his finances vis a vis his marriage would be compelling evidence that he may not lay claim to your money.

I'm with thenumbertaker TBH.

I think you need to follow his lead and see this money as your money, and act accordingly.

We have our house split 75/25, incidentally, so it can be done.

Otherwise what's yours is his, and what's his is his. And that's no way to be.

Stick the money in an offset mortgage in your name. That way its still yours but you arent paying interest to the banks. If anything happens then he cant touch it.

Then his income is used to pay house debts/save for holiday/allowance to you to buy cheap tat, and you both decide on these levels together.

However, if he wants to keep control of his own finances then that is up to him. You cant just change the rules when you feel like it. If roles were reversed and he was demanding to see all your finances, then many would be shouting 'controlling'. You may be married but they are his earnings, right up to the point where a court says they are to be shared.

And lets be honest, knowing every aspect of his finances is probably the first step on the road to you deciding how they are going to be spent. I can see why hes hesitant.

"And lets be honest, knowing every aspect of his finances is probably the first step on the road to you deciding how they are going to be spent. I can see why hes hesitant."???

You think that if women are allowed to know how much their DHs earn, or god forbid are allowed access to it, they will blow the lot on shoes or something?

What an odd attitude. Many women are highly responsible people, it may surprise you to learn.

Isn't that, like, er, y'know, a family

money comes into home, money goes out of home. all into the family pot, how it's spent is a joint decision.

I dunno, it just seems weird to me.

You sleep with someone, you have children with someone, you holiday with someone, you cuddle up on the sofa with someone, you confide your dreams and fears to someone, you plan your old age with someone but you don't want them to buy something with 'your' money?

I don't, in all honesty, get it.

I think it's worrying that he won't say what he earns. I don't think there is room in a marriage for one party (husband or wife) to deliberately keep information from the other. This whole allowance thing is his way of saying that she is not his equal and it belongs in another era.

To me, it seems like he has one foot out of the marriage and it's making his wife feel that perhaps she should have one foot out too. If you are not in it together and totally committed, then there is really no point in being married.

This isn't about a couple deciding to have separate bank accounts, but sharing the bills in a proportionate way. This is about him not investing in the relationship as much as the OP wants and as much as she will be if she pays off the joint mortgage.

I do think the OP has a right to say how her husband's money is spent too. He is only free to go out and earn it because she is taking care of their children. Someone made the point earlier that if he wants to go down that route, perhaps he ought to fork out 50% of the cost of looking after them and pay that to his wife, seeing as how he isn't doing 50% of the childcare himself.

I have to agree what hecate posted earlier. I would have a sneaking suspicion that he would want to take control of the remainder of the settlement money and you would be only 'allowed' access through him.

I know you say you don't find him controlling but this is. His refusal to let you know about his own finances, the frankly odd repatriation meetings you have at the end of the month, and his dismissal of your role in providing childcare all set alarm bells ringing. I certainly would get financial advice on how to properly invest your money to it's best advantage but to continue to allow only you access to it.

It completely astounds me how some men an completely understand the need to pay for outside childcare, but as soon as the wife does it, it suddenly becomes free.

This might have been said already but if i were you iwould

1 go for counselling
2 invest your lump sum very wisely with expert advice
3 contribute what you do now monthly from it
4 do not put all of it into your home

it is a very sad situation for you. I cannot really see how he on the one hadn wants a SAHM but also wants your money!

he obviously has deep issues with control and trust.

You sound as if you have no idea how much he earns. it is feasible that with his bonuses he has enough stashed away to pay off your mortgage anyway!

I would not do anything with your money if you get it other than as i said, pay what you already do- and decide if youreally want to be married to him at all. His behaviour is not accpetable.

Hecate, I agree with you, but someone who treats his family the way the OP's H is treating her just doesn't get it, and IMO, never will. So fight fire with fire, I say.

ah, useful:

"And lets be honest, knowing every aspect of his finances is probably the first step on the road to you deciding how they are going to be spent. I can see why hes hesitant."

why not use ccp's posts as a bit of insight into how your DH is thinking?

I don't think this sort of thing:
"I love him to bits but this is tearing me apart"
"I'm so sad and sick with worry about how it's affecting us"
will do you any favours in the face of that.