to think if our debt is joint, our income should be handled jointly too?

[Lloydloom]

please be gentle, it's my first go and I really need some help! I'm lost with what to do!
I am employed in a job that involves a lot of driving, but have degenerative disc disease in my lower spine which now makes my job impossible. My company have an insurance policy which covers 2/3 of my wages till I'm 65. I'm 40, and went off sick in 2007. My (enormous) company haven't offered me any alternative employment, and apart from being made redundant, which is unlikely but possible, I don't really see any changes to the situation. I do however have to go for regular and increasingly invasive reassessments and treatment. Invariably, the insurer says I'm cured/able to work, then I appeal with the use of expert medical opinion/MRI scans etc and I win, and the payments are reinstated. It's very stressful and a pain in the neck (literally).

I reckon that the insurer would be fairly interested in settling the claim once and for all. It's anyone's guess how their actuaries work out a settlement offer, but I reckon I'd roughly be offered a figure that happens to be about twice our outstanding mortgage. But my income would of course stop, meaning I would be reliant on my husband for everything. He is a high earner but as a result of some experiences he had before we met, he runs his financial affairs totally separately to mine. I know what his salary is, but nothing about his shares/bonuses etc.

Anyway (I'm coming to the point) I could pay off our entire mortgage and rely on my DH, and put the remainder towards a bigger house, or the DC's education, etc.

AIBU to think that if I've settled the mortgage, DH should also change the way he looks at things, allowing me access to his current account and essentially our only source of income? He says he wants to keep things the same and he will pay me an allowance. It's not the amount of an allowance which is the issue for me, it's the fact that it seems that our debts are joint but 'our family' income isn't.

We have one account jointly which we both paid proportional amounts into, but I arranged a direct debit off it without his agreement and he went mad and keeps saying that "the trust is ruined" because of this. (It was for £30 a week for our cleaner.) He now no longer pays into it. Instead we sit down at the end of the month for "reparation" and work out who has paid for what, and then balance things.

He doesn't really like it that I'm at home with our 3 young children AND yet still have my own income as he says it makes me respect his role less - he wants to be the sole breadwinner/man-of-the-house. Whilst I saw the option of a settlement and huge cash injection as a positive thing, he seems very negative about it.

I love him to bits but this is tearing me apart. I'm the mother of his children, his wife, and he still thinks I might rip him off. We had a terrible row a few months ago and nearly split up and I said in the heat of it that if we ever broke up, I'd have the kids, and the shirt off his back. He's taken that very badly and seems to be trying to protect himself from financial disaster, when actually this could be a really exciting fun time for us.

I'm so sad and sick with worry about how it's affecting us. What should I do?

You really need to have a serious talk to your H. It sounds like he wants to control you through money despite you saying he isn't controlling.

Tell him how it looks like if you pay everything off he can fleece you and walk away and how should you trust him when he clearly doesn't trust you.

To kick his toys out of the pram over a £30 dd for a cleaner which you both benefit from is extremely petty and controlling.

You are not going to end up any better off unless your H changes his attitude to money.

If you pay of the mortgage you and your H will have a house paid off. You will then have zero income and your H will still have all his income.

You will not be better off that way.

If you do separate and your H gets 50% of the house, then he gets 50% of the money you have paid off the house, you still have no income and he still has all his income. You probably don't then have enough to buy yourself a new property while your H would have plenty as he gets 50% of the house plus his income.

If you invest the money then you have income from it while your H still has his income. If you split up he may be able to claim 50% of that investment and still have his income leaving you with a lot less.

Make sure whatever you do with that money it is legally in your name and inaccessible to your H as this is exactly what he is doing to you and you need to protect yourself.

Work out how much a childminder/nanny/day care etc would be, plus a cook, everything that you do that makes him able to earn his higher wage and bill him for his 50%. It seems pathetic but that may be the only way to reach him.

Xales most of what you say is right but if they did split up itis likely he would have to pay his ex wife maintanence if she was unable to work for health reasons- for a while at least.

And if she had invested a huge amount more into the mortgage the split may not be 50/50- she could get 60/40 or even 70/30 depending on her needs.

with 3 dependant children her share would be more than half and she may even be able to keep the home.

But the point is- this is no way to conduct a marriage with someone you supposedly love, is it?

"Work out how much a childminder/nanny/day care etc would be, plus a cook, everything that you do that makes him able to earn his higher wage and bill him for his 50%. It seems pathetic but that may be the only way to reach him." - Xales

He'd probably be fine with that. Nowhere does the OP say hes being tight with the money being offered.

The issue here is about control. Given that hes clearly been burnt before, he has elected to continue to keep control of his own income. Fair enough as long as OP isnt being deprived. But she should make sure the mortgage investment remains under her name.

"You sound as if you have no idea how much he earns. it is feasible that with his bonuses he has enough stashed away to pay off your mortgage anyway! " - cabbageroses

True. Or equally, he could be hiding a large gambling debt or a low income subsidised on credit.

Would you be as keen to 'share' finances if you thought your mortgage downpayment was going in debt repayment to Ladbrookes OP? There are many advantages to the separate finances model - including the ability for one half of a marriage to go bankrupt without the other half being affected.

Christ almighty if my DH was running up gambling debts too bloody right I'd want to know about it!

You have had good advice; re you are a family and things should have moved up a knotch (shared finances) when you had the DC's. Would you be willing to claim Disability Living Allowance for some of your expenses? It is designed to help in situation such as yours. If you pass the test for the companys insurance you would probably be awarded it.

I dont get why its ok that you had your own account when earning yet its unfair that he does and continues to do so. You also see this money as yours rather than the households so he's only doing what you are doing. Either everything is joint or none.

Threatening to take the kids and his money wont have done anything other than make him think twice re access to his account.

Am surprised at the amount of threads telling you to protect your money, if this was a man I cant imagine him being given the same advice.

But happymummy aren't you missing loads of points?
Namely that he thinks the OP should be given an allowance/pocket money?

and that she doesn't know how much his bonuses are or where it goes?

loads of other things too............re-read the post.

He, rather than trust his wife because she set up a dd on a joint account for £30 for the cleaner, decided to stop fairly and proportionally paying into the account as agree, decided that they have to sit down every month and work out what they have paid for and then square up. That means the OP has to tell him everything she has bought/paid for during the month?

It was a flimsy crappy excuse to use to stop paying in as agreed.

What if he decides that the OP spends £30 too much on a cleaner this month and takes it out of next months allowance? What if he decides she can't have £30 to buy her child a pair of shoes and doesn't give it to her in an allowance?

You are right this isn't the way a marriage should work . Unfortunately I think OP needs to protect herself because her H is protecting himself only, otherwise she could be in a mess financially and not have the money that is supposed to be there to cover her inability to work for the next however many years.

Just rushing a reply in between bath and bedtime etc. I don't want us to split up and neither does he, IMO. We don't have any plans to separate.

His earnings- I know what he earns, it's his other assets he is reluctant to discuss, mainly director's shares in his company. I have a very rough idea. He probably has savings and investments elsewhere but again I don't know about them.

My mum is having the kids tonight and we're going for a Serious Talk. We had a bit of a chat earlier but it's obviously tricky with the children running round. He is adamant I should do what's right for me. I said that what's right for US is right for me but he disagrees. He isn't the one pushing for ME to pay off the mortgage, he wants it paid off but not necessarily by me.
As for the allowance thing, I should have been more explicit that my DH isn't necessarily tight with money, it's not the amount, it's the principle behind it.

We've got a long way to go to sort this out and I suspect that this is something we will revisit till the end of our days, so I need to find some strategy to deal with it.

Thanks tons for all of your advice - I'll be looking for a financial advisor in any event, and if settling still seems like a good idea, I'm quite enthused at the prospect of say, some small properties for rental, or a little business. I don't know, just pleasant food for thought.

Will try and report back after tonight's chat.

Good luck

Rental properties and small businesses sound like fun. Maybe you could be a venture capitalist and end up on dragons den!!!!

Just because your dh does not wish to have completely open and shared finances it does not have to mean a problem.

joint finances does not always equal happy marriage

separate finance does not mean always abusive controlling partner

Lloydloom, best of luck in having your chat this evening.

I just wanted to post to let you know that the way you and your DH manage your finances, ie settling up at the end of each month, is exactly what a friend and her DH do. They have done this from the time their first DC was born and friend started working part time. They now have 2 DC and it has been a successful way of managing finances for them. They have all sorts of accounts - for family holidays etc. Her DH is a bit OCD which she accepts and she accepts that doing things this way helps him feel the control he needs.

It's not my way. My mam has a great saying:
"When you're married, you're all pissing in the same pot." It sounds like your husband is afraid to take the plunge into the family pisspot.

Since you have until this point kept finances separate, it's possible that he's reluctant to change things if joint finances have previously caused arguments. Here's what I would do:
Explain that you're going to pay off your share of the mortgage, and that he can carry on paying his share into your bank account as before. That way, all that's happening is that he's continuing to pay what he was paying before, and you have the "income" that he would have paid to the mortgage.

I know it's effectively what you were suggesting, but I think he might feel eaier about it if you weren't "living off his income" (although obviously you wouldn't be because if everything remained the same, he'd still be paying the mortgage!!).

Well then, this comes down to what you are prepared to live with. Looking after number one is not what I would want or tolerate in my marriage, but I guess we all draw our lines in the sand in different places.

If this was me, it would eat away at me knowing that he has secret investments and didn't a)trust me enough to tell me all about them and b) want to share them with me.

You may not be planning on a separation - very few people do, but it's a fool who doesn't take steps to protect themselves just in case.

If nothing else, do what's best for you with your money. You are thinking in terms of 'us', but your husband isn't.

And get a joint account reinstated for joint expenses and make sure he puts his fair share in at the start of the month. Having to justify and explain what you've spent is not the way to an equal relationship. Kicking off over the cleaner's direct debit was treating you like a child.

I could not and would not put up with this.

When you're married and have children, it's daft to be buggering about with all this 'my money, your money'. It's all legally both of yours. I would say if he wants totally fair and equitable division of the assets, he can have it. It's called divorce.

But then I am a drama queen and can't stand tight bastards.

I would not be giving him the benefit of a mortgage free house if he did not share his income! Sounds like he is more in danger of shafting you than vice versa. If you do pay off the mortgage, I'd ask him to sign a post-mutual settlement giving you the entire proceeds on divorce, as this takes his attitude to its logical conclusion.

instead of paying off the mortgage i suggest you buy one or two rental properties in your name.

I agree with skybluepearl that this would be the obvious solution - buying one or two properties to rent out in your own name (it would be more tax efficient to buy even more but have large mortgages on them).

However you do realise that whatever you do with the money in terms of putting it into bricks and mortar, if you do split up, your DH would have a claim on them. You on the other hand would have a claim on his assets which would be considered joint property in such a scenario. But how would you claim on what he is doing with his bonuses and on his shares when he keeps them secret?

Would you keep any insurance payout so secret? Because that is the equivalent of what he is doing to you, and its a strange way to behave in a relationship.

Wants you to stay at home and go out and earn
omg I had that particular gaslighting mindfuckwittery from my ex.
He got me a job in a local shop but refused to look after dcs sometimes on a late/early shift so I couldn't keep the job, all my fault of cours.

Pk so if it is all down to you get some professional advice and think very carefully.

Hope your talk went well

Married couples assets do not become joint on marriage.

A person still has their own money.

I can't believe so many people seem to believe otherwise. It is only when a couple divorce that it becomes an issue.

ps I would also be reluctant to pay off the mortgage in these circumstances

I think you need legal advice before you accept the settlement (and there may be lots of reasons for you why the settlement is a good deal) from a decent family lawyer. The situation if you did ever split is complex and you need to ensure that your rights are as protected as they can be. That's what your DH is doing, after all.

Don't be ruled by your heart into thinking that you must do what's right for both of you now. It may even be that you need a legal agreement drawn up which, even if not binding, would indicate how you both plan to split any assets that you hold should you separate. Your DH is protecting himself and you need to do the same.

I agree with Nijinski's post wholeheartedly.

You need to look after yourself. The idea that he has "secret money" is just really concerning.

OP: I can understand your DH's position if he has been burnt before and you told him that you would "have the shirt off his back" if you split.

If he is not comfortable changing your current financial arrangement (which presumably works for you up to this point) then I would keep any financial settlement for yourself and use the income to continue the status quo. Should he change his mind further down the line then you can pay off the mortgage at that point.

I would not pay off the mortgage without first having complete access to all his income.

I had this. I was expected to pay for everything, work and yet not work, and I had absolutely no idea of my husband's income or savings etc.

It went along with other undesirable traits, such as lying and meaness of heart as well as of pocket.

This is not unusual in that the husband lives as he wishes, with access to the family money, which he controls, but the wife and children are living in poverty, with no access to any funds of their own.

Being burnt before is no excuse whatsoever for his attitude. He is treating you as a second class citizen in your marriage. DO NOT put any of your lump sum into anything joint.

Get advice from a solicitor. Look after yourself, as he is looking after himself.

My husband is now an ex-husband, and the judge punished him for the way he had treated his family through our marriage. It's a nasty attitude that has no place in a marriage.

We went out last night and I got him to go through his assets. They were exactly as I thought. His bonuses aren't much, and he has more savings than I thought, as he's trying to build up 3 month's salary net in case of emergency. I went through mine and it was more than he thought because of some investments etc. He is of the view that I SHOULDN'T pay off the mortgage as we have such a good rate and IF I took a settlement I should look at some wider portfolio which pays me an income. He said again about "protecting" himself and I don't think we'll ever get past that. We also discussed my paying off my half of the house but it doesn't make sense to do that really. We had a very open chat about everything including how I felt when he seems to run his financial life separately. He apologised and wants to reinstate the old joint account and says I'm free to look at anything else whenever I want too, and that he isn't being secretive.
I don't think we're out of the woods yet but it was certainly a step forwards.