to tell my mum she is not allowed to give my 4m.o daughter baby apple juice

[sweetuphoria]

I have not even started weaning my daughter yet and have explained to my mum that she does not need drinks until she is on solids and I will give her water then in any case. My mum keeps insisting she thinks DD is thirsty (I disagree cos have offered DD cooled boiled water on hot days and she is not interested). My mum has now bought DD some baby Apple juice and keeps insisting 'it never did you any harm'.

Mind you MIL is just as bad, she stuffs our 12M.O nephew with crisps, biscuits, she let's him drink from her coffee and fizzy drinks.

They both keep joking that they can't wait to give DD ice cream, chocolate etc. It makes my blood boil. What's the point in giving kids that junk when they don't even know what it is so would be quite happy having fruit and veg that actually has nutritional content.

AIBU

Chocolate is not a reward food in my house but just a rare treat and I will never make an issue if my eldest wants some but may say later etc or have some fruit for now. Sweets though I will say no to - sweets are terrible

I still think giving babies sweet stuff is ridiculous as they are not aware of these things so why give them

Jenai, do you know that fruit is a rich energy source too and falls into the category of 'good' stuff rather than being high in saturated fat and processed sugar?

bubbley - I think that Jenai can make her own decisions about what to feed her kids and what she considers nutritious - my lad won't touch hummus, olives or avocados as he considers them to be 'gopping', however healthy they might be. It's a lot to do with the texture of these items for him, and at 15, I'm not going to push the issue.

We went to see a hospital nutritionist last week and were told that fruit can be a bad thing, especially certain fruits, so it doesn't always fall into the category of 'good' stuff by any means.

As for the cholesterol argument - it doesn't follow at all; dh has type 2 diabetes and doesn't touch chocolate/sugar, eats stacks of veg and fruit and multi cereal bread. I eat chocolate, sugar, cheese, crisps at times etc and I have one of the lowest cholesterol readings my doc has ever seen...so go figure.

er, yes. Although I'd dispute that fruit is high energy. It contains sugars of course but most fruit isn't very calorific.

Basically, if you had an underweight child the last thing you'd want to do is fill her up with fruit. A bit of cheese would be a better idea (although obviously she'd still need fruit and vegetables).

Im not telling you what to feed your children - just that there are healthy options for energy, fat etc if you are interested. The information is very easily available if you bother looking for it. Fruit IS considered high energy whether you believe it or not and chocolate contains LDL ('bad' cholesterol) rather than HDL('good cholesterol') Anecdotes about your own experience don't prove otherwise. The facts are there, ignore them if want. No point in trying to educate those who wish to remain ignorant. As you were ladies!

If you don't believe me [[http://www.nhs.uk/chq/pages/1862.aspx?CategoryID=51&SubCategoryID=164 here is some info from the NHS website.

Some extracts...

"A food with a high GI will produce a sudden rush in blood sugar, while a food with a low GI will keep your blood sugar levels more stable.
Eating low GI foods will leave you feeling fuller for longer, and will help you to avoid snacking in between meals. Foods that have a low GI include:
apples,
oranges,
pears,
porridge,
beans,
peas,
pulses,
lentils,
bran cereals, and
peanuts.
However, as well as eating low GI foods, sometimes it is necessary to eat high GI foods. For example, after exercising your muscles need to restore their sugar levels quickly, as most of their energy will have been used up. This is when eating a food with a higher GI value, such as a banana, can be beneficial."

Hmm a banana - not a piece of chocolate!

"Fats are divided into two groups - saturated and unsaturated. Eating a small amount of unsaturated fat will help to keep your immune system healthy and can reduce cholesterol levels.
Foods that are high in sugar, such as chocolate, cakes, biscuits, and fizzy drinks, give your body an instant energy rush when you eat them. However, after the initial rush, your sugar levels will drop. As your sugar levels drop, so will your energy levels. As a result, you may find it more difficult to concentrate, or you may feel irritable, tired, and lethargic. As sugary foods are bad for your teeth and high in calories, you should eat them sparingly, as a special treat."

Info here

Don't be so insulting Bubbley - some of us take the view that a mixed diet (including some chocolate and saturated fat) is perfectly nutritious, as does the hospital dietician (therefore a professional) whom I saw last week in relation to dh's diabetes, as I stated above, but you ignored that and you think you know better than a HCP?

I prefer not to demonise food like Bruffin; you evidently have issues. I have seen the results of demonising food too often in eating disorders and am not willing to play that game.

Incidentally, when I wish to be patronised, I'll ask. People are allowed to have an opinion contrary to yours and to have researched it as well.

FYI:

Lower Cholesterol: Dark chocolate has also been shown to reduce LDL cholesterol (the bad cholesterol) by up to 10 percent.

Well said scaryteacher some people are to quick to believe there way is "right" and everything else is "wrong"

I haven't demonised food at all and don't have any food issues either :) Funny how people get so offended when you correct them about something...People said chocolate and crisps were a good source of fats and cholesterol and I pointed out they are not the 'right' sorts of fat and cholesterol. I've actually said a few times that if you want to include these things in your diet then fair enough but don't try to convince yourself that they are a necessary part of your diet - they aren't.

Did your dietician tell you that crisps and chocolate weren't full of saturated fat or that you should choose chocolate over fruit for high energy? I'd be interested to know which fruit he doesn't like and why. I will take your point about the dark chocolate - but I don't see too many mums giving their babies it! :)

Funny that Sirzy, I could have said the same about those who think that it's important to introduce crisps and chocolate and sweets into a child's diet for essential fats, cholesterol and energy. :)

I didn't actually need to be corrected by you Bubbly, as the dietician wanted to come and eat with us once she saw dh's food diary. She was also surprised that we drank so little and said that we could have wine or beer each day if we wanted.

What you don't seem to get is that children need some saturated fat in their diets for energy and growth. If you read my post carefully, I said I ate chocolate and crisps, but that I had very low cholesterol indeed. At no point did I say that chocolate and crisps were the right things to eat, just that I did, and that I have low cholesterol. Thus, one's genes and personal make up also have a impact on your cholesterol, and it's not solely diet.

The dietician suggested that oranges should be kept to one a day, no squeezed juice, and that new potatoes, peas, sweetcorn and french beans should be kept to a minimum. She wasn't keen on bananas either. Blueberries were OK, as were plums. bear in mind that this was a consultation for an adult with diabetes and not a child. However, she also said that most things can be eaten as long as it is in moderation and to look at portion sizes, except for green veg. She also stated that even 'good' oils (as you wish to term them) like olive oil/rape seed oil etc should be measured very carefully.

Scary teacher - what you don't seem to get is that you can get saturated fats from healthier foods than chocolate eg cheese. TBH I don't really care what you or anyone else's family eats - it's more just the misinformation that bothers me ie. people saying that children need these things in their diets because they have fats/cholesterol/sugar for energy etc when there are other healthy sources of these things which means you can avoid them if you wanted to. If you want to give them to your children, fine, your child your choice, but they do not NEED them at all.

Thanks for the info from your dietician - I would say it's probably specifically tailored to your husband's individual needs as a diabetic and chances are you would find another dietician who would tell you something different.

Nobody is saying they need chocolate in their diet, there just saying it's just not necessary to be that controlling over diet as you appear to be.

Actually bruffin, a few people have said that. I'm quite happy to be thought of as controlling over my 5 yo and 2 yo's diet. - they're children! I would imagine that you control what your children eat too but you just happen to draw your line at a different place than I do. (Unless you just give them free reign over the cupboards and fridge and let them make their own meals!) As I said before, give your children whatever you want because you want to but don't try to back up your decision with misinformation about the healthy benefits of 'unhealthy' food.

or 'free rein' - whichever you prefer :)

'I would say it's probably specifically tailored to your husband's individual needs as a diabetic'......exactly what I pointed out above 'bear in mind that this was a consultation for an adult with diabetes and not a child.', but you seem to ignore that.

'What you don't seem to get is that children need some saturated fat in their diets for energy and growth': where in that sentence does it say that I consider chocolate the only source of saturated fat? It doesn't; you are extrapolating. Full fat milk, dairy (not cheese as he hates it) and red meat were what I used when ds needed to increase his weight.

You have a bee in your bonnet about what you consider to be a balanced

diet. No foods should be off limits altogether. You also fail to realise that although there are other healthy sources of these things, a child may not want to eat them, and however many times one tries, that position does not change; my 15 year old and hummus, olives, eggs and avocados as the texture of these makes him throw up. There are certain foods that I will not put in my mouth either and I am 45, well travelled and well fed.

I am confused as to why another dietician who was being consulted by a diabetic would give me any other advice than that which I was given. The consultation was about controlling sugar spikes, so the oranges you cite weren't low GI, and neither were peas, beans or sweetcorn. Are you suggesting that I should ignore the advice of the dietician; if that is the case then we can ignore the advice from the NHS website that you pasted in, as that was presumably written by a dietician as well.

Didn't ignore that at all scaryteacher - Are you now arguing because I'm agreeing with you?

I'm glad you are aware that there are other sources of saturated fats, I'm not sure what I said that made you think I did not think that saturated fats were important so I assumed that you were stating it in defence of including chocolate as part of a child's diet.

"No foods should be off limits altogether" That is your opinion. I think certain foods are unnecessary and while children are not aware of them they will be kept 'off limits'.

"You also fail to realise that although there are other healthy sources of these things, a child may not want to eat them, and however many times one tries, that position does not change"

I'm not sure where I have said that all children will eat these things - I was just giving them as examples of healthy sources fats/cholesterol etc. There are quite a few options available if your child does not like a few of them.

Dare I suggest that perhaps some children may be more open to trying different foods/tastes/textures etc if they hadn't been introduced to sweet things so early so that those are the only things that they want?

Not sure where I said to ignore the advice either. I was just pointing out that some dietician's differ in their opinions on certain things so if you consulted another one he/she may say something slightly different.

"I did not think that SOME* saturated fats were important "