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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to think that actually, this is a form of financial abuse?

100 replies

prettymuchapixiegirl · 07/05/2011 15:36

My friend is married and has 3 children, aged 9, 3 and a newborn baby. She hasn't worked since she had the 3 year old.

Her DH works full time, in a minimum wage job, and so they qualify for housing benefit, a small amount of council tax benefit, the usual tax credits and of course Child benefit.

Her DH says that, as he works and she doesn't, all the money is his, and everything is paid into one account, for which only he has access. He gives her a (small) amount each week for food shopping and if she needs money for anything else, such as taking the 2 youngest to toddler group, she has to ask him for money. Sometimes he says yes, sometimes no. He also logs all mileage on their car and checks when she's been out somewhere that she has only done the mileage she should have done and hasn't been anywhere else "wasting petrol".

She asked me my opinion and I said that in my opinion they are a family unit and as such all money coming into their house is theirs. Not his. And especially not money given to them by the state, for the children. He has earnt his wages, fair enough (although IMO they're not his and his alone) but the benefits are for the whole family. I wouldn't say that the children go without, but they have bags of handmedown clothes from me and from other people, and they don't get to do a lot of things such as have days out or even go to soft play or anything like that. My friend has no idea how much money they have in the bank as her husband won't tell her.

I have suggested to her that she sets up a bank account of her own and contacts tax credits and child benefit to get them paid into that account, although I'm unsure about whether they'd do that without her husband's agreement too. She would get a job but obviously she has a newborn baby and also she hasn't got any qualifications so chances are she would end up in a minimum wage job and pay all her wages on childcare. Her husband works shifts so she can't take an evening or weekend job, and she feels totally stuck.

OP posts:

Newgolddream · 07/05/2011 17:57

As others have said it all about control - he needs to have complete control over her. Its not right of course but your friend has to do something about it as she is letting it happen now, I know its not as black and white in cases of abuse and what to do but your friend seriously has to think about living like this, the effect it is having on her and her children now and the effect it will have on them in the future. Its completely ridicolous about the money thing but Im sure it will only get worse.

They are a family unit and whilst she is a SAHM she is doing a worthwhile job of raising the children, who belong to both of them. Personally im just a bit surprised she wanted another child with this man.

FreudianSlipOnACrown · 07/05/2011 18:02

Wow big red flag there :(

OP you have a good reason to bring this up with your friend - I was told in no uncertain terms that child benefit should be paid to the main carer especially if they are not working. This is because, IIRC, the years the carer receives CB now count towards NI contributions - this is very important because your pension can be affected if you don't have enough years contributions. If she receives CB she would also then receive the child tax credits, at least that's how it worked for us.

I know this isn't really the point but if you tell her this perhaps it'd spur her into action and you'll see for sure what is happening based on his reaction. If he refuses she has major problems :(

BertieBotts · 07/05/2011 18:03

Agreed with SGM - and Women's Aid would certainly be able to help, their hostels are not just for battered women who have to flee at extremely short notice, but also for people who are trapped in abusive relationships because they have nothing and nowhere to go - there are always options.

My friend is/was in a relationship like this (not entirely sure what the situation is now as she was banned from speaking to me) and I worry about her.

WhereYouLeftIt · 07/05/2011 18:03

Try considering growing up smaller than all your contemporaries; being asked for ID well after achieving majority; girls who tower over you not wanting to dance with you; and consider what it might do to your self-esteem. That was a stupid thoughtless comment on your part, grottielottie.

BertieBotts · 07/05/2011 18:05

Newgold, I don't find it hard to believe. If someone is putting up with behaviour like this they usually are because they believe that's what all men are like, or that there's no alternative, or that it's justified.

SnuffleTurtle153 · 07/05/2011 18:05

It is absolutely financial abuse. Domestic abuse takes all sorts of forms and this is one of them. She needs out...

BalloonSlayer · 07/05/2011 18:06

She means that not all small men have a chip on their shoulder, Whereyouleftit.

BertieBotts · 07/05/2011 18:07

BTW, my bf is quite short and he's nothing like that and has no "ishoos" over it. Bit of a generalisation.

SnuffleTurtle153 · 07/05/2011 18:09

I love small men. I had a tall boyfriend when I was about 14 and he dribbled on my face. Put me off for life.

grottielottie · 07/05/2011 18:11

WhereYouLeftIt actually I'm am only 5 foot myself and still get asked for ID at the age of 32, my point was that you can no more generalise on a persons character flaws based on hight as you can on any other part of their apperance.

WhereYouLeftIt · 07/05/2011 18:18

And my point would be, grottielottie, that you've rather proved my sweeping generalisation by getting all huffy and making a personal attack (NB I called your comment stupid, you called me stupid).

And at 5'3" I tower over most of my family and my first partner was 5'4" with very good self-esteem, so I'm well aware there are many exceptions. SO ya boo sucks to you .

zukiecat · 07/05/2011 18:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TidyDancer · 07/05/2011 18:32

zukie :(

OP, your friend is a victim, no doubt about it.

Icoulddoitbetter · 07/05/2011 18:34

I have no comment to make about small men. But back to the OP....

We left my father when I was 17. When we went to the council to discuss housing options (we planned the move before we went) we were told that we would be declared homeless (therefore get rehoused) because he only gave my mother £30 a week for all food and bills, it was abuse (there were other factors but I remeber them clearly telling us that this was abusive behaviour and enough to justify our homelessness claim). we got allocated a house, and left after he went to work one morning.

We were given some money, not sure where from, to help us set up before my mum (who had a job but the money was paid into a joint account she had no access to) could sort herself out finacially.

OP your friend has no free will within the marriage because she is being abused, so she needs to get out. Men like that do not change.

fatlazymummy · 07/05/2011 18:52

Definitely abuse. I grew up in a family like this. Even when my mother worked full time she had no money of her own. My Dad gave her bus fare [to the penny] and she even had to beg if she wanted a bar of chocolate.
Hopefully your friend will come to understand this and to seek the help that is available nowadays. My Mum didn't understand how controlling my Dad was until after he died. He wasn't violent [at least to her] because he didn't have to be. The threat was always there.
True control starts with mental control.

jugglingjo · 07/05/2011 19:15

I'm thinking if your friend could get her child benefit and family tax credit paid into her own account, as I do, that might help a lot with this situation.
I'm sure as the main carer of our children, and the mother, I was the one given the option of where the money should be directed.
It doesn't seem right that any adult should have so little access to financial resources as she does at present, especially where she has responsibility for the children's welfare.
Have to say though that I would be very unhappy in such a set-up myself.
But perhaps there are some quite straight-forward ways to make the situation more tolerable for her.
She could for example start with getting the child benefit put into a new account in her name, and tell her husband, quite truthfully I believe, that the authorities now pay child benefit to the main carer of the children.
Even this much autonomy would enable her to decide whether or not to go to the toddler group that week or not, and not have to depend on his decision about it.

BertieBotts · 07/05/2011 19:47

Hmm, but juggling, if he's anything like my ex (and my ex was controlling over money but not as badly as the OP describes) then firstly she's probably not wanting to rock the boat enough to ask, he'd be suspicious of her motives for wanting to transfer it into her name, make loads of excuses and sulk and whine and throw around accusations of her wanting to leave him. Then if he finally did agree he'd then be expecting a "contribution" for the household bills, asking to borrow money all the time, every time they need to buy something joint he'd insist she pays for it "since you have money for the family now" ... and so on.

jugglingjo · 07/05/2011 19:58

Ahh, but perhaps if she just got the modest child benefit put into her own account ( as I said I'm pretty sure she gets first call on it, and it usually goes to Mother ) she could perhaps keep a little record of what she's spent it on for the DC's eg. toddler group, petrol to visit a friend etc. and that could be a way forward. Could share this account of spending with her husband - who sounds like he's taking husbandry too far

SuchProspects · 07/05/2011 20:49

Juggling That sounds like a sort of reasonable approach to a reasonable situation. but there is nothing reasonable in what the husband in this situation is doing. Assuming she is the named recipient the OP's friend would be better off asking the authorities to pay the CB into a different account and not mentioning it to her partner at all. Let him think the authorities have screwed up. Then when she's built up a little cash she might be able to feel more comfortable leaving him. I don't see any point in her trying to "fix" the situation. A man who would act like that isn't someone you should be trying to stay with.

Of course she may well feel differently, especially after years of this treatment. But I do hope for her and her kids' sake she gets the confidence to start to looking at ways to leave him not live with him.

jugglingjo · 07/05/2011 20:59

Fair enough SuchProspects
I did say that in her situation I'd find it hard to stay.
But perhaps we need to acknowledge how hard it can be to leave as well. Especially with a young family and baby.

SurreyDad · 07/05/2011 22:15

I believe that, by law, HMRC require the mother's permission to pay child benefit to the father, in order to prevent this situation occurring. However, in practice, they do not ask for this permission as it is seen as discriminatory (not every mother is the main carer, and not every father is abusive).

Also I would make sure that she is aware that (it has been mentioned earlier in the thread) that if she is not accruing NI contributions, then she will not be entitled to a full pension when she reaches retirement age if the child benefit is not paid to her by name (although she could still nominate her husband's account I believe even if it is paid toher by name).

jugglingjo · 07/05/2011 22:46

Great info, SurreyDad, and a great attitude too.

Could perhaps be a good excuse to her DH for having the benefit in her name, and going into her account - in order for her to get a better pension ?
As well as of material benefit.

Lovemelillady · 07/05/2011 22:47

She's being controlled! I've only ever had to log miles on a car and that was for work purposes! No mum should have to do that. Wasting petrol? What a tard!
And as for CHB and Tax credits, they should go to her too. My xp seemed to think he should have the Tax Credits as his wage was the one they based it on (as I was studying), I told him to jog on and swiftly stuck my info on the forms!

CarGirl · 07/05/2011 22:55

If she changes the bank account then that is going to alert him that she is standing up to him which may make things worse for her.

If she wants to leave then speak to WA, phone up Child benefit and CTC the moment she has left and is somewhere safe would be my advice.

jugglingjo · 07/05/2011 23:00

It could be possible though to phone up Child Benefit and have that money paid into new account in her own name. If husband queries it then say Child Benefit are now paying money to main carers. Could work ?

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