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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think that is was quite distateful

194 replies

ModreB · 03/05/2011 19:01

For Obama and effectively the rest of the US Govt to watch live coverage of Bin Laden being shot dead?

At least Hilary Clinton looked pretty horrified here

OP posts:
expatinscotland · 05/05/2011 21:22

Xenia would have convinced him to follow her willingly with just the force of her stare. 'C'mon Bin Laden, do the right thing. Stop ordering these attacks and all will be forgiven. After all, I never have to use those grotty tubes and buses you or your organisation more than likely bombed. Or those nasty trains like in Madrid. Kenya, now come on, most of the people killed in there were African. But I don't want to die just going to work like those poor sods in the Twin Towers, so just give it up.'

CheerfulYank · 05/05/2011 21:24

Yes, floweryblue , there have been no celebrations anywhere near me. Young drunk people will find any excuse to scream in the street, won't they?

floweryblue · 05/05/2011 21:47

Very true CheerfulYank

dizzyde · 06/05/2011 06:05

Like it expatinscotland!

NetworkGuy · 07/05/2011 05:24

Just had to say congrats on baby, dizzyde and hope battle was won, health-wise. Anyway, must get to [UK] bed, I guess :-)

Xenia · 07/05/2011 10:18

Today's Times letters pages sum up the views of many of us rather well

"May 7 2011 12:01AM

The depth of our commitment to ethical principles is not tested by the easy cases but the most difficult

Sir, Widespread American delight in the death of Osama bin Laden is not the voice of justice rightly served: it is the thrill of revenge successfully accomplished. It is profoundly sad but true that the 9/11 victims and their surviving families have been brought vengeance by this act, not justice. No, justice, as wisely and comprehensively defined by the US Constitution and US legal system, required bin Laden to be brought to trial, and subjected to the due process of law. The depth of our commitment to ethical principles is not tested by the easy cases but the most difficult.

Moreover, the decision to call this operation ?Geronimo? has been rightly criticised. Imagine a nuclear missile called ?Jesus? or a blockbuster bomb called ?Mohammed?. To appropriate the name of the Apache leader, knowing how Native Americans were devastated, cheated and abused, is a demonstration of a chilling sickness in the American psyche one would have hoped the President would have risen above.

Keith Farman
St Albans, Herts

Sir, When the whoop-haws and high-fives have subsided, I wonder whether moderate Americans will come to regret the slaying of Osama bin Laden. History shows no justification for sanctioning this state execution without trial. Bin Laden was undoubtedly evil. But any worse than Hitler?s henchmen? Yet, even they had their Nuremberg to satisfy the democratic process, before being ordered to the gallows.

The US spent 20 years fashioning bin Laden as its bogeyman, only to transform him into a martyr in 40 minutes. I fear the repercussions will outlive many a generation.

Garry Doolan
Port Sunlight, Merseyside

Sir, I beg to differ with your leading article (?Justice Served?, May 6). This example of ?rough justice? is not just, it?s capital punishment. Even a military background does not prevent me feeling very uncomfortable about it.

Rear Admiral Roy Clare
Tollesbury, Essex

Sir, Your leading article describes al-Qaeda as ?a grave threat to American ? and indeed to most of the planet?s ? citizens?. Such a statement is irresponsible and absurd. How could this be possible? Even the atrocity of 9/11 killed 3,000 people out of a population of 300 million.

The chief aim of terrorism is to spread terror. l am unclear why you underwrite this aim with the hysterical language of your editorial.

Jonathan Cahill
London NW6

Sir, Osama bin Laden has not been denied justice. The circumstances in which he had placed himself made any attempt to bring him to justice very dangerous. It is not difficult to accept that the US forces involved took this into account once they found him. Bin Laden might have demanded the robust justice that most of us expect should we be arrested. What he, and his supporters, could not expect is that those trying to bring him before a court should unreasonably risk their lives lest some misfortune overtake him.

Peter Inson
East Mersea, Essex

Sir, Eric Holder?s statement yesterday that bin Laden?s killing was lawful does not automatically make it so. The US Attorney General cannot be the judge of his own cause. It would therefore appear that his announcement is premature.

Rajend Naidu
Sydney, Australia

Sir, President Obama, the man who came to office decrying the obscenities of Guantanamo Bay, and who is bound to uphold law, has forfeited any right the West may have to claim the moral high ground by stooping to the same depths as the terrorists.

We would do well to remember the words of that truly great American Martin Luther King, who said: ?I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that.?

Jonathan Liggins
Guildford, Surrey"

bigbuttons · 07/05/2011 10:28

Quite right, for me this quote sums it all up
"We would do well to remember the words of that truly great American Martin Luther King, who said: ?I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that.? "

AitchTwoOh · 07/05/2011 10:34

SO HOW WOULD YOU HAVE HANDLED THE ACTUAL ON-GROUND SITUATION, XENIA?!

i note that despite the military backgrounds of some of those letter-writers, they didn't mention a Plan B. i think nobody is 'comfortable' with the execution of Osama Bin Laden, that's just stupid, like being pro-abortion. people, even presidents, have to deal with the situation that they are faced with. so, i ask again, adding my voice to the many others on this thread... what would you actually have DONE?

carminaburana · 07/05/2011 11:08

Xenia - Bin Laden will not be a martyr to many - even the Taliban had cut ties with him as he had nothing further to offer ( no money, no strategy ) he wasn't even 'hiding' in Taliban territory - says it all.
Much of the Arab world wants democracy ( you may have noticed what's going in the middle East lately ) al -Qaeda were always destined for failure.

And He wasn't respecting any laws - therefore he didn't deserve to be given any legal representation or protection - he was an 'outlaw' and deserved all he got.

Save your emotions for something/someone more deserving.

bigbuttons · 07/05/2011 12:06

"And He wasn't respecting any laws - therefore he didn't deserve to be given any legal representation or protection - he was an 'outlaw' and deserved all he got."
I think that's what applies to all criminals. If they had respected the law then they wouldn't be criminals. So according to that thinking no criminals should get any legal protection?

carminaburana · 07/05/2011 13:30

He refused to give himself up - that's the key issue here, what were the Americans supposed to do?
Y'know I don't remember all this Liberal hand wringing when Raoul Moat was shot dead by our police ( if you haven't heard of him look him up ) he refused to give himself up so was shot dead in a field - Bang! He was gone.

I personally can't see the difference.

Xenia · 07/05/2011 16:55

There are too many differences between the sides on this really to progress it. In a terrorist movement there are not really properly leaders at all and killing one in illegal fashion is hardly likely to have one iota of effect but it has made a lot of people terribly happy and that is how man is - kill, distract, please the masses. It was ever thus but we still all have a duty to point out that many many people are appalled at this breach of the rule of law and are saddened by it. Not in our name.

"We would do well to remember the words of that truly great American Martin Luther King, who said: ?I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that.? "

Cloudydays · 07/05/2011 17:42

the first part of your quote is not MLK's words

And it's interesting that you included this letter in supporting the case you still haven't made Hmm as to how you would have done things differently:

Sir, Osama bin Laden has not been denied justice. The circumstances in which he had placed himself made any attempt to bring him to justice very dangerous. It is not difficult to accept that the US forces involved took this into account once they found him. Bin Laden might have demanded the robust justice that most of us expect should we be arrested. What he, and his supporters, could not expect is that those trying to bring him before a court should unreasonably risk their lives lest some misfortune overtake him.

Peter Inson
East Mersea, Essex

So, we're still waiting. How would you have carried out the operation? Or would you have just let him be?

CheerfulYank · 07/05/2011 18:03

Xenia, what would you have done differently?

Everyone I know in real life is an American. (Except for three of my husband's work colleagues; one is Welsh and two are Canadian. I only see them once a year.) NO ONE I know celebrated in the street. EVERYONE I know wishes that he had been brought to trial but accepts that there must have been a reason he wasn't.

So, again, what would you have done?

hifi · 07/05/2011 18:12

MLK,he didnt quote it,its fake.

Cloudydays · 07/05/2011 18:18

MLK did write the part beginning "Returning hate for hate multiplies hate..." It's the first part about mourning precious lives that's not MLK. It was someone's facebook status - her own thoughts - and she followed it with the MLK quote. Her friends copied and posted and lumped the whole quote in as credited to MLK.

Link to story in my previous post.

bigbuttons · 07/05/2011 20:35

I don't think it actually matters who said it in the end. I've thought about whether it does, but it doesn't because it's simply true.

Cloudydays · 07/05/2011 20:54

bigbuttons I assume your point is that it doesn't negate the meaning of the quote, which is fair enough, but of course it matters whether he said it or not. We shouldn't just go around saying "Martin Luther King Jr. said that" when actually, he didn't. It was an honest mix-up to start with, but now that it's been clarified as a mistake, there's nothing wrong with pointing that out.

What thousands was King supposed to have been talking about? What enemy did people expect him to mourn? It kind of ruins a truly great, thought-provoking quote about the futility of hatred.

bigbuttons · 07/05/2011 21:51

cloudydays I agree. It would have been better if MLK had indeed said those words, it would have held more weight, that's for sure. I wish he had and they seem to fit the kind of person he was so well. I wish also that we could all think that way.

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