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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To resent having to pretend I don't have a child when around a certain old friend?

151 replies

jeckadeck · 03/05/2011 16:40

Old, very dear, childless friend hates listening to people talk about babies. To the point of neurosis -- she tunes out any reference to kids at all and makes ostentatious claims to anyone who will listen about how bored she is by it all. Don't really know whether she hates children, is envious or is just bored by the conversation, suspect a combination of all three. Up to a point I sympathize, there's nothing duller than being sat in a room full of young mothers banging on about the contents of their offspring's nappies if you don't have kids yourself and if you can't have kids it can be quite painful. I have a 12-week old baby and I try my hardest to be sympathetic and not to talk endlessly about my kid when I'm out with her or other childless friends. But she recently said she'd love to get me and another mum friend out for a night out "on condition that you don't talk about your children." I just think that while its one thing to expect that we don't go on about them all night, she can't expect us not to discuss our children at all. But am I being unreasonable? and if not, how do I get this across to her without hurting her? We've had this out in the past when I was pregnant and she temporarily seemed to get better but apparently is now back to insisting that any reference to children be erased from our friendship.

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diddl · 04/05/2011 13:45

She sounds an absolute snob tbh.

And people probably find her & her "creative" friends ridiculously pretentious boring.

jeckadeck · 04/05/2011 13:49

Quintessential LOL. What language is that? either way I'd like to use that in conversation, sounds great. Thanks...
You're right in a way. But you know how sometimes you can dislike someone on paper but actually like them in practice? Sometimes with very old mates you like them in spite of, as opposed to because of, their personalities. History has a lot to answer for.

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jeckadeck · 04/05/2011 13:55

bohemian I don't want to lose her friendship. But we have been down this road before and she either can't or won't learn when people pull her up on things like this. I think it will blow over anyway and she'll get bored of trying to dictate things that are impossible and move on. I really do appreciate her, hence the handwringing on here. But I'm not exaggerating when I say I literally don't mention my kid to her and I don't think that's sustainable in a long-term friendship. Something will have to give.

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diddl · 04/05/2011 14:05

TBH, if she was a friend she would be interested in your baby & would be asking about them.

QuintessentialPains · 04/05/2011 14:17

lol it is Norwegian. Ã…ndssnobb, means, when trying to explain, that a person is snobbish relating to all things to do with the spirit, the soul, which again is in relation to works of art, be it writing, visual arts, dance, music. It is like saying classical music, theoretically, is more valuable or "upbuilding" to the spirit than jazz, and a classical guitarist is more of a musician than a heavy metal guitarist, and that a performance artist on a trampoline is more of an artist than a gymnast on a trampoline. It is like raising your eyebrow and say "well, I personally only read Ibsen, and have no thought for, Allende" etc. I dont think I explain it well.

jeckadeck · 04/05/2011 14:20

Quintessential that's a great expression. Quite telling that there's no equivalent in English....

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dreamingbohemian · 04/05/2011 14:28

OP you are right, it's not sustainable. But in the case of me and my friend, it was she who realised after a while how ridiculous it was, and came around. I'm not sure she would have done if I had put any pressure on her though.

She also realised in all this that it's babies she's not crazy about... she can't wait until my boy is older and she can properly teach him stuff and play with him. Do you think you could sell your friend on all the creative stuff you can do with your child when older?

Obviously you can't go on like this forever, and I think you should definitely tell her how you feel about it. But personally, I would give it a bit more time before making any big decisions about the friendship.

Anyway, I know it's a really shite situation to be in Sad good luck with whatever you decide.

TheyKnowEsperanto · 04/05/2011 14:43

Jeck Are there any other subjects she has declared 'boring'? What does your other mutual friend think about being told she is not allowed to mention her children?

A fair few of the single childfree friends I mentioned as being lovely to my son work in fashion (either journalism or as a buyer) and another is an actress. Sure, we all thought their jobs were glamorous (well the lawyers and accountants amongst our group definitely did!) when we were early 20s and everyone was starting out but 15 years on....not so much - and that is mainly because it is tough and they tell us it is tough - as one of them put it "I can't keep trying to recoup on a shit salary by eating my own body weight in canapes" (as she scoffed several olive tapenade thingies at some launch event). It's not particularly well paid, little job security, few enhanced maternity benefits if any blah blah.

The more you tell us about her the more desperately insecure this woman comes across as. It feels like she is clinging on to a past life, watching her contemporaries move on (not only those having children) and she is trying to freeze time. What loyalty does she expect in return for her loyalty? And if she declares anyone jealous who dares to criticise her, well how does that work when she tells you not speak about your baby? Jealous much?

jeckadeck · 04/05/2011 14:44

bohemian I think she will come around, by default if nothing else. But as I sort of tried to explain before, I don't think the issue is the baby, its me. She considers it a betrayal at some subconscious level of me to have spawned as she thought I would be a partner in crime. That's what I figure anyway.
I'm sure it will be ok in the end. Thanks all for your thoughts.

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spidookly · 04/05/2011 14:46

"Well, for example, she doesn't have a very high opinion of people who do ordinary average workaday jobs"

Hmm Hmm

There's a word in my language to describe someone like this too - it's ASSHOLE. It means someone who is a bit like an anus, in that only shit comes out of them and people generally avoid their emissions.

jeckadeck · 04/05/2011 14:51

spidookly LOL.

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jeckadeck · 04/05/2011 14:58

Esperanto other mutual friend (who has a slightly older kid) is equally pissed off and has been on the receiving end of similar incidents. We've had it out with her, both together and separately and she seemed to have accepted that she was going to have to come to terms with it. But recently she's been telling me things like she prefers to see me and mutual friend separately (we used to hang out in a threesome a lot before the kids came along), so we can't allow baby talk to "dominate" the conversation. Which I think is a little bit insulting because a) it implies that we're total airheads who can't talk about anything other than our kids and can't read the social runes at all and b) because who is she to try and socially engineer like that. If she wants to triangulate us so we only meet one on one, rather than as a threesome, then there's going to be trouble ahead.

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EightiesChick · 04/05/2011 15:08

Ah, I see a strategy ahead. Make sure you only meet her with the other friend for a while so that you have strength in numbers and she can't dictate the topics of conversation. Mention your kids freely and then when she objects, suggest she wanders off to the bar for a bit if it doesn't interest her, but you aren't up for having your conversations censored. Much easier to do with two of you.

jeckadeck · 04/05/2011 15:10

EightiesChick that would work in the sense that it would make it clear she couldn't dictate terms. But I think it would undermine her trust in both of us she would feel a bit shafted because she knows we know she's not comfortable with that. Maybe I'm being a bit soft but I think I'd rather talk to her about it one on one that way at least she will understand where I'm coming from.

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Jux · 04/05/2011 17:26

I do really think you should be as normal about this as possible. How would you normally react if you and your mates were chatting about something and one of them started behaving like she does when you talk about kids? I'd just tell her to stop being so rude, to grow up, ask what her problem is, point out conversations about things I don't have a lot of interest in etc etc etc. She can't have you all pussy-footing around her forever and she is being bloody rude.

jeckadeck · 04/05/2011 17:54

Jux totally true. It's because bad habits have been established. She is someone who its quite daunting to argue with so most people (myself included) take the path of least resistance and end up basically giving in to her. Then, months or years down the line after she's gone way way too far, they snap and end up falling out with her big time and she doesn't understand. Its my own fault.

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flossymuldoon · 05/05/2011 09:36

She is deffo being unreasonable but it makes me wonder about her reasons for being so anti kid-talk.

During the 6 years when we were unable to conceive/IVF etc i found baby talk torturous, but i tried to be as interested as possible as i know how much it meant to my friends. On the other side of the coin i did get an apology from one friend for going on and on about her kids when we were on a night out as she realised that it must be hard for me.

So, it should be swings and roundabouts. I appreciated that my friends wanted to talk about the most precious thing in their lives, but they also appreciated how hard it was for me.

I have to say that some were oblivious to it and were unbelievely tactless, but they are no longer my friends as it made me realise that if they weren't a little bit sensitive to it then they weren't true friends after all.

I now have a little boy who we are adopting. He has taken over every minute of every day so i am afraid to say that there is not much else i want to talk about at the moment. The good friends i have indulge me though as they know how hard our journey has been and i really appreciate them doing that.

iscream · 05/05/2011 10:05

If this was a tv program, you would die and she would discover you named her as guardian in your will.

Good luck, I hope she is worth this hard work to you.

jeckadeck · 05/05/2011 11:11

flossy absolutely. Some mums can be incredibly tactless. The thing is I bend over backwards not to to this to childless friends and she knows this and sometimes takes advantage of it, I think. I know several friends with fertility/conception issues but as far as I know she's not one of these. Just used to getting her own way a lot of the time.

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diddl · 05/05/2011 11:19

"But I think it would undermine her trust in both of us -- she would feel a bit shafted because she knows we know she's not comfortable with that."

But she´s undermining you by telling you what you can/can´t talk about & by trying to see you & your other friend seperately.

Most adults would "indulge" (for want of a better word) you for a while & then just say "enough baby/child talk"

As when a friend is going on & on about a new partner!

Morloth · 05/05/2011 11:37

It doesn't sound like she likes you very much.

jeckadeck · 05/05/2011 12:12

Morloth she's like this with most people. Difference is most people are better at standing up to her and establishing boundaries. I'm a bit of a pussy with her. Think I just need to grow a pair.

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WhereYouLeftIt · 05/05/2011 14:03

""her career in creative arts is intrinsically interesting""

ahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahhaahahahahahahhahahahahahahaha

I think the suggestion of meeting her with the other friend is a very good one.

"Mention your kids freely and then when she objects, suggest she wanders off to the bar for a bit if it doesn't interest her, but you aren't up for having your conversations censored."

And then follow it up with "How do you feel about having what you talk about dictated by someone else? And how do you think I feel about it?"

jeckadeck · 05/05/2011 15:10

WhereYouLeftIt then light blue touchpaper, stand back, etc.

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WhereYouLeftIt · 05/05/2011 19:05

I'd rather be hung for the sheep every time Jeckadeck. Grin

I just really hate being told what to do. If my mother can learn not to do that, anyone can. :)

Seriously, I know you say she is a good friend you don't want to lose, but I don't think you are in danger of losing her friendship - you've brought her into line before, you can do it again. Rather a big (temporary) row than (permanent) growing resentment.