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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To resent having to pretend I don't have a child when around a certain old friend?

151 replies

jeckadeck · 03/05/2011 16:40

Old, very dear, childless friend hates listening to people talk about babies. To the point of neurosis -- she tunes out any reference to kids at all and makes ostentatious claims to anyone who will listen about how bored she is by it all. Don't really know whether she hates children, is envious or is just bored by the conversation, suspect a combination of all three. Up to a point I sympathize, there's nothing duller than being sat in a room full of young mothers banging on about the contents of their offspring's nappies if you don't have kids yourself and if you can't have kids it can be quite painful. I have a 12-week old baby and I try my hardest to be sympathetic and not to talk endlessly about my kid when I'm out with her or other childless friends. But she recently said she'd love to get me and another mum friend out for a night out "on condition that you don't talk about your children." I just think that while its one thing to expect that we don't go on about them all night, she can't expect us not to discuss our children at all. But am I being unreasonable? and if not, how do I get this across to her without hurting her? We've had this out in the past when I was pregnant and she temporarily seemed to get better but apparently is now back to insisting that any reference to children be erased from our friendship.

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QuintessentialPains · 04/05/2011 11:16

Well, will you be able to call her at 4 am when your 1 year old has croup, you think, as he cannot breathe, and your dh is out travelling, and you are panicking and in tears because you cannot leave your 4 month old home asleep alone while you take your 1 year old to A&E?

If you think you can do that, then perhaps it is worth trying to salvage it.
Otherwise, you can keep her as a "fair weather friend" and just have fun.

It is worth trying to say something like "darling, I know the theatre is riveting, but right now so is my baby, so at the moment, I am enjoying learning this side of life and nature. It is such a profound and deep experience. Almost like gazing into the abyzz of Gaudi" or something ... fnaarr fnaaarrrr . Grin

spidookly · 04/05/2011 11:19

"I know we're going to have an adult conversation when we meet up "

:o

PMSL

Adult? She sounds like a toddler.

I'm teaching my 3 year old something she doesn't appear to be able to grasp - that other people matter, that you can't dicate what other people do, that what you find interesting isn't what everyone finds interesting.

Jesus, she really needs a kick in the hole.

jeckadeck · 04/05/2011 11:23

shocked2 yes she has been single bar a couple of short term relationships for quite a long time. I think she would like a partner although I don't get the sense that she's desperate. She has a very active life and lots of friends so not lonely in the conventional sense. I think it has more to do with her subconciously wanting to control her female friends and their life choices than being jealous of the relationships per se. She does go out of her way to say how little she envies most of her friends their relationships and how happy she is on her own. Could be a case of the lady protesting too much but it's not a straightforward case of her crying inside and feeling miserably lonely about not having a bloke. Quintessential yes I could call on her with a child-related issue, I think. For all her faults she's an amazingly loyal friend who you can count on when the chips are down and she did offer to be my birthing partner (because my DH went away close to the birth and it wasn't clear whether he was going to be back in time.) Can't fault her on this sort of thing. I think I just need to go back to her again and say that I'm not going to have her dictate what I can and can't talk about.

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EightiesChick · 04/05/2011 11:26

If she is someone who does come through when things are bad, then it is worth thinking longer term here. Probably means having an assertive conversation with her about future 'rules' and/or accepting that the next few years will be different for your friendship and may (hopefully) change again for the better after that.

GwendolineMaryLacey · 04/05/2011 11:32

The people who are saying that baby bores are dull etc are spectacularly missing the point. We're not talking about describing the child's day in minute detail, we're talking about even acknowledging that the OP has a daughter.

Ultimately, how can you be friends with someone who pretends, and insists you pretend that the most important aspect of your life doesn't exist?

QuintessentialPains · 04/05/2011 11:32

I agree with your assessment. You can moderate the baby talk and not gush and squee with her. I am sure she is willing to listen to some baby related issues, or mention of your baby and what you do.

shocked2 · 04/05/2011 11:38

I asked about her being lonely because it sounds as if she has got on her soapbox about the whole talking about babies thing and doesn't know how to get off it - or as if she lives in a vacuum and has no one close enough to her to challenge her ideas... I don't think everyone with a partner is happier than they would be (I'm not!) but living with another adult means that you cannot grandiosely live in your own fantasies because someone else is there to challenge them.
Anyway, it sounds as if there is enough of a solid bond in your relationship with her to warrant you telling her how you feel - I am impressed that you are able to do that with her as the only person I can do that with is my sister - must mean my friends are more acquaintances than friends :(

InPraiseOfBacchus · 04/05/2011 11:58

YABU - I'm fine talking for over ten minutes without mentioning my child. I have childless friends who would never have the need to yawn at me because I just don't talk about my kind when I'm with them - why should I other than to report genuinely interesting anecdotes about him? I'm a grown adult with a million other interests and things to talk about.

It makes me sad when so many other of my friends with children shun the childfree for arbitrary reasons. I mean, there are other things to do with your life than be a martyr and push a buggy, you know.

I adore DS and I personally think he's very interesting, but an evening with friends is not the time to wax lyrical about him, and I can understand that! I'm not under the impression that my decision to have offspring is so untouchably sacred that it's a crime not to want to hear about it!

InPraiseOfBacchus · 04/05/2011 11:59

Well, maybe not YABU, I mean, it IS a bit much to say over and over that people should shut up about a certain subject, children or anything else, in your exalted presence.

InPraiseOfBacchus · 04/05/2011 12:00

*"kids" not "my kind"

jeckadeck · 04/05/2011 12:01

shocked I think you've hit on something really important: she doesn't often get challenged by people period because she has a big, forthright personality, and when she does she tends not to engage with the criticism, preferring to put it down to jealousy (i.e. someone has pulled her up on something because they are envious of some aspect of her life. She's done this to me numerous times.) I think she is someone who has found it very hard to accept criticism or engage with other people's needs in a relationship be it a friendship or a sexual/romantic relationship I'm big and ugly enough not to care about this most of the time and I know how she ticks so I deflect it. But every now and then I will think "buggered if I'm going to be told I can't talk about my kid," etc. I think we'll get through it as we've got through worse.

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jeckadeck · 04/05/2011 12:05

Bacchus yes, but (sighs as I've been through this ad nauseam) I almost never even refer to my baby with her, so sensitive is the subject. Even when the baby is in the room, I can't talk about her. I'm perfectly capable of being around childless people, cherish their company even. This isn't about my demanding a right to talk endlessly about my kid. Its about the fact that one friend sees fit to request that I never refer to my kid when I'm with her.

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IWantToBeAFairyWhenIGrowUp · 04/05/2011 12:16

^^ Sorry Jeck - what a complete bitch - your baby is only 12 weeks old for goodness sake.

I suggest letting the friendship slide or tell her exactly how she's making you feel.

QuintessentialPains · 04/05/2011 12:50

But you STILL think you can call upon her if you have child related problems?

make up your mind....

jeckadeck · 04/05/2011 12:56

Quintessential don't see that there's a conflict. She would def help out if, say, my DD was sick and for some reason I couldn't get to hospital or if I had no money, because you always help a friend in need (in her philosophy and mine). But she would resent children intruding into her leisure time conversation because she doesn't consider them intellectually stimulating enough as a topic. And of course because she doesn't know much about them. That's what I mean.

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valiumbandwitch · 04/05/2011 12:59

I'd give her some space for a while.

I remember how ALL encompassing it is to have just had a baby when they are only weeks old! I had a friend like this once. it's unrealistic of her to expect you to be able to compartmentalise and switch off. I'd say to her 'tell you what, I have a project and I'm working on it quite intensively at the moment, it's gotta be my focus for the time being but I'll come up for air and be dying for a good night out in a while, I'll ring you then and we can arrange a good night out'.

Both parties need to be realistic.

I do sympathise with YOU obviously having had two kids, that would be my position. The woman I knew who I wasn't allowed to mention being pregnant to, she could go on about her mortgage or something all night long, and that was ok!!! Hmm or her sofa, or the uncle of somebody at work .....

QuintessentialPains · 04/05/2011 13:00

But at the same time she insist you dont even mention your baby, and she will ignore it, because it is of lesser intellectual value.

What other things of lesser intellectual value are you not able to talk about? What other value judgements about you and your life has she made, that is enabling her to take such a superior stance?

She seems awfully manipulative and controlling.

Why did you actually post your op, if you dont see the conflict?

jeckadeck · 04/05/2011 13:15

Quintessential. Well, for example, she doesn't have a very high opinion of people who do ordinary average workaday jobs (i.e. a plumber or an accountant or someone who works for a local authority). She likes to surround herself with people in "creative" jobs. She would get very bored listening to people talking about what they watched on tv last night or what they were planning to eat for dinner and would let them know. She is, or she can be, manipulative, for sure although she probably sounds worse than she is she can be very supportive in a crisis. When I said I don't see the conflict I meant I don't see an inconsistency between her being able to help me in a baby-related emergency if called upon to do so and her not wanting to talk about the baby bottom line is she would help if needed, but she doesn't want it impinging on her "fun" time. Anyway, I'm rambling on a bit.
I guess the reason I posted is because I wanted to be reassured that it isn't actually only my duty to not talk about my kid and that she has some responsibilities in the friendship too. She seems to think that the onus is on me as the person with a kid to suppress conversation, rather than on her to occasionally suck up a bit of boring or painful conversation.
sorry... long

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IThinkTooMuch · 04/05/2011 13:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

QuintessentialPains · 04/05/2011 13:22

Your child is only 12 weeks now.

How will you feel when you are not able to talk about your child having her first day in school. Having done well in the school play, enjoying your holiday together in X, your child learning to ride a bike, to read, to bake... The list goes on. This baby is going to grow up to be a person. Now of course it is boring to hear about nappies. But your friend has placed a value judgement on YOUR CHILD (and you) as inferior to herself and all that she do.

How does that actually make you feel?

QuintessentialPains · 04/05/2011 13:27

I am sorry. I realize you hold a very high opinion of your friend. Possibly some admiration. But to me, she sounds really really ignorant, and snobbish.

In my language, we have a very apt description for people like this, sadly, it loses a lot in translation: Åndssnob. Goggle translates suggest highbrow. But ånddsnobb is really quite derogatory.

jeckadeck · 04/05/2011 13:30

Quintessential well, quite. When you put it like that.... it makes me feel like giving her an ultimatum.

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Oblomov · 04/05/2011 13:38

I don't mind not talking baout kids. Nott he centre of the universe, ya know. Though to some mothers it seems it.
BUT, what is so Scintillating about her topics of conversation. Bets she draons on and on about work this, or holiday place thta. Fuck boring, I bet.
Let her go.

JamieAgain · 04/05/2011 13:39

Quintessential - it translates as "and is a Nob"

dreamingbohemian · 04/05/2011 13:43

Please don't give her an ultimatum. Just talk to her. She's an old friend and if she really would be there for you in times of emergency, was willing to be your birth partner, she can't be all bad.

How many people can you really count on at 4 am? Don't lose that without at least trying to work something out. 12 weeks is so early on, give her a bit more time to adapt.

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