to believe Pakistan is a failed state which harbours terrorists

[longfingernails]

and Britain should leave it well alone?

We certainly shouldn't give hundreds of millions of aid money to this basket case of a country, which gave Osama bin Laden shelter in the very heart of its military centre.

carminaburana I think the way forward is to actively target everything that makes Labour's extremist immigrants comfortable in Britain, and make it illegal, or tax it to the rafters - combined with a stepped up extradition process (ignoring the bleatings of the ECHR).

nailak Yes, exactly. I don't want poor immigrants in this country unless they contribute in some other exceptional way.

The benefit of living in Britain to a Pakistani peasant previously living on 20 rupees a day is obvious. The benefit to Britain of them being here is probably non-existent (in fact, negative). They should not be allowed anywhere near.

On the other hand, a brain surgeon, doctor, lawyer, architect, scientist, or entrepreneur? Let them in - whether they are from Pakistan, Iran, Australia, Papua New Guinea, or Outer Mongolia.

GIVEITAGO - I didn't say that aid is normally given with robust conditions. I said UK aid to poor African countries is usually given with robust conditions. So there is the experience and knowledge that can be transferred to Pakistan aid.

Yes some organisations/charities are not good at ensuring that aid is well used.

Sorry I meant UK aid from the UK government

Longfiingernails have you considered a career in politics if you're not already there?! You'd get my vote on this one.

Yes- agree LFN, in fact I agree with everything you say.

HalfPastWine You have to be joking!

Though I would never get actively involved in politics (beyond following it closely), I occassionally contemplate joining the Tory party. But when I read about Cameron giving in yet again to the EU - or not paying danger money to RAF personnel involved in Libyan operations, whilst giving "aid" money to a Pakistani regime which harbours terrorists like Osama, I realise how draining I would find the continuous selling out on my ideals.

Are you UKIP?

Sorry - feel free to ignore me

LFN In your opinion do you feel we should come out of the EU ?

I have never voted UKIP but could easily be persuaded to do so, especially in a European election. I am ashamed to admit it, but I once voted for Tony Blair!

In truth, I don't want to leave the EU - but feel it is inevitable. The Eurocrats won't deviate from the federal Europe/political Europe project - there is no chance of restoring national sovereignty and returning to a common market. Though there is maybe hope - for the first time I can remember, widespread Euroscepticism is spreading throughout the continent, beyond Britain.

We should definitely throw our weight around a lot more in the EU though. At the moment, though we need them, they need us more. We should veto the new treaty changes which will be needed for further bailouts unless, at the same time, Lisbon is effectively revoked.

And we can definitely leave the European Court of Human Rights without any negative side-effects whatsoever. What business is it of theirs whether British prisoners vote or not? That is a matter for Parliament, and Parliament alone.

Apologies for the direct question - and thank you for replying, really interesting.

And Yes, I've also voted Labour - ( I'm currently undergoing therapy for it.)

Will look out for more of your threads LFN

I have not read such racist twaddle as your's OP in a long time.
You are a short-sighted fool.
No one nation can stand alone, we need to be united to succeed in a global economy.
It is people like you who will destroy this country

And yes, I am the daughter of immigrants, but my parents are not pheasants. They work hard and are wealthy land owners, like the majority of Asians living here.

nilbymaaf there is not racist intention to the OP's question.

And yes, I am the daughter of immigrants, but my parents are not pheasants. They work hard and are wealthy land owners, like the majority of Asians living here

She has not attacked the work ethic of Asians living in the UK. I think you need to start again and read the thread properly as you seem to have completely misunderstood the context.

The title is itself racist
"to believe Pakistan is a failed state which harbours terrorists", I find that insulting.
As is your statement "the work ethic of Asians.." Truly condescending. So we meet with your approval do we, oh great white master.
Maybe you should kick out your own native work-shy benefit cheats

Just logged in to offer nilbymaaf, my full support. I don't know the solutions to the many problems we're facing but people like longfingernails scare me. I stopped reading her posts when she mentioned 'I considered joining the Conservative party'. Argh

Yes, longfingernails...maybe you should kick out your own native work-shy benefit cheats. Now that IS a problem.

Here is a summary of where UK aid to Pakistan has been targeted since about 2000. Unfortunately, it majors on spending (nothing on how they monitor effectiveness). There's further information on the DfID website, eg here and here.

Also (from wiki) here's a handy definition of a failed state with maps to show just how much of the globe can be considered as such.

^As is your statement "the work ethic of Asians.." Truly condescending. So we meet with your approval do we, oh great white master.
Maybe you should kick out your own native work-shy benefit cheats^

Firstly, let me remind you of your comments:And yes, I am the daughter of immigrants, but my parents are not pheasants. They work hard and are wealthy land owners, like the majority of Asians living here

YOU are the one who brought 'working' into topic, I do not see how this is related to the OP's opening question.

Also YOU ARE RACIST by calling OH GREAT WHITE MASTER. You have absolutely no idea of what race or colour I am.

at pheasants.
Or the above posters denying being birds?

LadyBeagleEyes I didn't like to pick up on the spelling of peasant otherwise I might have also been accused of bullying as well as being a white supremecist!

Pakistan was harbouring Bin Laden, so yes, it was harbouring a terrorist, and the homegrown Taleban are hardly sweet and nice either.

Failed state - well on the way; Bhutto murdered, a minister murdered and a woman due to be executed because they are not Muslim....hardly the rule of law is it?

The ISI are fundamentally corrupt to boot.

None of that is insulting, it is fact.

I have been told by Pakistanis that ALL the aid they have been given including money from the IMF ALL go to the pockets of their politicians. Who are all from the richest families. To repay the IMF they have to sell all their harvest abroad creating a huge humanitarian crisis within Pakistan. People cannot afford to buy sugar, flour, rice. They are actually the producers but they have to spend more money than us! All of their politicians come from landlord families who have private armies to protect themselves. They have the vast majority of their huge labour force working in their fields ON PURPOSE UNEDUCATED so they will keep on working in their crops/mines etc. for GENERATIONS so they will pay back their dept to the landlord :( And the depts keep on increasing and never get paid and new generations of children go to work to repay the landlord instead of going to school. Nobody can walk within a 2 mile (..or km?) zone to their parliament. They know how much people hate them and would rather kill them. No wonder they have such long periods of dictatorship and the people are NOT INTERESTED in bringing down the dictator because the politicians are not any better! In such corruption I think they view people like the deceased one as ..saints/saviours? On one hand their politicians hate anyone who would try to break their rule but at the same time speaking to their own TV they speak in brighter terms in respect of terrorists. They need this double face and this is not news.

So yes, it is wasted money, the poor people never get anything :(
And their politicians will pocket all the cash

Their president will have pakistani people pay millions to make a statue for his dead wife although he is a billionaire himself. The aid money that Britain will give is peanuts for him!

a link to a BBC article about the offal Pakistani reaction.

scary: I agree with you (except possibly about the scale of ISI corruption, as it's intrinsically hard to establish, but tree has certainly been no satisfactory refutation of allegations to date).

But that leaves the question of whether, given Pakistan's wider strategic importance (not least for the military mission in Afghanistan and the border areas), it is better to y to engage and influence with all possible tools, including aid; or if it is right to disengage. I'd opt for the former.