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AIBU?

to believe Pakistan is a failed state which harbours terrorists

87 replies

longfingernails · 02/05/2011 13:47

and Britain should leave it well alone?

We certainly shouldn't give hundreds of millions of aid money to this basket case of a country, which gave Osama bin Laden shelter in the very heart of its military centre.

OP posts:

Report

TwoIfBySea · 04/05/2011 12:57

maighdlin, you're right, there isn't a cat's bum face emoticon and we really should have one by now.

Reported today that the heads of Al Quaida are meeting in Pakistan just now.

Meeting.

In Pakistan.

Or would you prefer to run away and hide now?

RunAwayWife · 04/05/2011 07:46

If they have money to build a bomb then they sure as hell don't need my money

scaryteacher · 03/05/2011 22:45

Why is discussing geopolitical issues like the Daily Mail? Have you stopped to consider that exactly this type of conversation about aid, failed states, how to engage with Pakistan given as Meditrina says it's strategic importance goes on every day? It formed part of the discussion where dh works the other day - we discuss it at home; it's a situation with many shades of grey.

Med - one of the biggest problem for the Logisticians in Bastion was bringing stuff via Pakistan as it got burned and the biggest problem with that according to my source (who was in Bastion and organising this was part of his job there) was the ISI.

maighdlin · 03/05/2011 22:37

read a bit more thread and have decided to hide this after you brought the court of human rights into it. there is no emoticon for my face at the minute. wouldn't it be great if there were no human rights? we could have had about 10 hitlers by now.

maighdlin · 03/05/2011 22:25

my god its like the daily mail in a handy concentrated shot like red bull.

theinet · 03/05/2011 21:51

many pakistanis in the UK are happy to be in the UK . regard it as their home, are modern British citizens and have adopted British culture and custom. I see it every day where i work which is a very multi cultural part of London. there are thousands of Pakistani born now British citizens and British born with pakistani heritage in the UK who are like this. They work hard , run businesses and contribute to our culture and society.

Unfortunately there are also a large number of recent and not so recent arrivals who have brought the attitudes, mindset and behaviour of a 3rd world village into a modern country, the UK. They have no real wish to integrate in any way, and don't really regard the UK as home. They have been allowed in indiscriminately with nothing in the way of education, no skills, no employment prospects. They are here to freeload and contribute very little, apart from burdening the NHS and other social services. These people undoubtedly number scores of thousands.

Changing attitudes amongst this second group is a hell of a challenge. Ideally the first group would help with the job. Unfortunately it is not always so simple.

suburbophobe · 03/05/2011 21:20

Scary thing about Pakistan is that they have the bomb (due to naiviety -sp? - in Europe).......

so we cannot afford to let it become a "failed state"....

Of course they knew Bin Laden was there! DUH!

troisgarcons · 03/05/2011 20:57

Gosh - wildly off topic - the mainland UK and NI gave an awful lot of "harbour" to terrorists ... namely the IRA ... and all its off shoots and there are also jihad cells flourishing ...sleeper cells ..... just waiting ......

Coming back to the IRA .... all absolved of their crimes and duly elected now .... warms the cockles of your heart doesnt it?

nailak · 03/05/2011 20:53

but it is true that many south asians came here and worked hard to become entrepeneurs sp? opened businesses such as off licencses, corner shops and restaurants and contribute to the economy, and provide employment. look at brick lane for example,
even those who came and worked as security uards paid taxes, had mortaes etc so contributed to the economy?

i mean how would you determine who is an entrepeneur or business man and will open a business such as shop or restaurant once here in a visa application?

TwoIfBySea · 03/05/2011 19:22

nilbymaaf, it isn't racist at all.

And it is that attitude that has allowed those who wish us ill to get away with it.

Everyone terrified that if they point out the obvious they'll instantly be tarred with the racist brush.

RunAwayWife · 03/05/2011 16:13

I saw a news programme that told how a six year old girl had frozen to death because her family were living under a plastic sheet after the terrible floods, the aid money that was meant to help them and countless others was sat there doing nothing while the people who are meant to lead argued over who should get what, to my mind the money I and many others donated should have prevented that child's death, sadly like so many other country's it is lead by despot, thieves, so corrupt that they could seek shade in the shadow of a corkscrew.

I will never donate money to Pakistan or the likes again,

ninani · 03/05/2011 15:45

And no, we don't need even more racist politicians.

meditrina · 03/05/2011 15:14

a link to a BBC article about the offal Pakistani reaction.

scary: I agree with you (except possibly about the scale of ISI corruption, as it's intrinsically hard to establish, but tree has certainly been no satisfactory refutation of allegations to date).

But that leaves the question of whether, given Pakistan's wider strategic importance (not least for the military mission in Afghanistan and the border areas), it is better to y to engage and influence with all possible tools, including aid; or if it is right to disengage. I'd opt for the former.

ninani · 03/05/2011 15:13

Their president will have pakistani people pay millions to make a statue for his dead wife although he is a billionaire himself. The aid money that Britain will give is peanuts for him!

ninani · 03/05/2011 15:10

I have been told by Pakistanis that ALL the aid they have been given including money from the IMF ALL go to the pockets of their politicians. Who are all from the richest families. To repay the IMF they have to sell all their harvest abroad creating a huge humanitarian crisis within Pakistan. People cannot afford to buy sugar, flour, rice. They are actually the producers but they have to spend more money than us! All of their politicians come from landlord families who have private armies to protect themselves. They have the vast majority of their huge labour force working in their fields ON PURPOSE UNEDUCATED so they will keep on working in their crops/mines etc. for GENERATIONS so they will pay back their dept to the landlord :( And the depts keep on increasing and never get paid and new generations of children go to work to repay the landlord instead of going to school. Nobody can walk within a 2 mile (..or km?) zone to their parliament. They know how much people hate them and would rather kill them. No wonder they have such long periods of dictatorship and the people are NOT INTERESTED in bringing down the dictator because the politicians are not any better! In such corruption I think they view people like the deceased one as ..saints/saviours? On one hand their politicians hate anyone who would try to break their rule but at the same time speaking to their own TV they speak in brighter terms in respect of terrorists. They need this double face and this is not news.

So yes, it is wasted money, the poor people never get anything :(
And their politicians will pocket all the cash

scaryteacher · 03/05/2011 14:44

Pakistan was harbouring Bin Laden, so yes, it was harbouring a terrorist, and the homegrown Taleban are hardly sweet and nice either.

Failed state - well on the way; Bhutto murdered, a minister murdered and a woman due to be executed because they are not Muslim....hardly the rule of law is it?

The ISI are fundamentally corrupt to boot.

None of that is insulting, it is fact.

HalfPastWine · 03/05/2011 13:42

LadyBeagleEyes I didn't like to pick up on the spelling of peasant otherwise I might have also been accused of bullying as well as being a white supremecist!

LadyBeagleEyes · 03/05/2011 13:37

at pheasants.
Or the above posters denying being birds?

HalfPastWine · 03/05/2011 12:06

^As is your statement "the work ethic of Asians.." Truly condescending. So we meet with your approval do we, oh great white master.
Maybe you should kick out your own native work-shy benefit cheats^

Firstly, let me remind you of your comments:And yes, I am the daughter of immigrants, but my parents are not pheasants. They work hard and are wealthy land owners, like the majority of Asians living here

YOU are the one who brought 'working' into topic, I do not see how this is related to the OP's opening question.

Also YOU ARE RACIST by calling OH GREAT WHITE MASTER. You have absolutely no idea of what race or colour I am.

meditrina · 03/05/2011 06:31

Here is a summary of where UK aid to Pakistan has been targeted since about 2000. Unfortunately, it majors on spending (nothing on how they monitor effectiveness). There's further information on the DfID website, eg here and here.

Also (from wiki) here's a handy definition of a failed state with maps to show just how much of the globe can be considered as such.

sundayrose10 · 03/05/2011 05:07

Just logged in to offer nilbymaaf, my full support. I don't know the solutions to the many problems we're facing but people like longfingernails scare me. I stopped reading her posts when she mentioned 'I considered joining the Conservative party'. Argh

Yes, longfingernails...maybe you should kick out your own native work-shy benefit cheats. Now that IS a problem.

nilbymaaf · 03/05/2011 02:10

The title is itself racist
"to believe Pakistan is a failed state which harbours terrorists", I find that insulting.
As is your statement "the work ethic of Asians.." Truly condescending. So we meet with your approval do we, oh great white master.
Maybe you should kick out your own native work-shy benefit cheats

HalfPastWine · 03/05/2011 02:03

nilbymaaf there is not racist intention to the OP's question.

And yes, I am the daughter of immigrants, but my parents are not pheasants. They work hard and are wealthy land owners, like the majority of Asians living here

She has not attacked the work ethic of Asians living in the UK. I think you need to start again and read the thread properly as you seem to have completely misunderstood the context.

nilbymaaf · 03/05/2011 01:45

And yes, I am the daughter of immigrants, but my parents are not pheasants. They work hard and are wealthy land owners, like the majority of Asians living here.

nilbymaaf · 03/05/2011 01:41

I have not read such racist twaddle as your's OP in a long time.
You are a short-sighted fool.
No one nation can stand alone, we need to be united to succeed in a global economy.
It is people like you who will destroy this country

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