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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to wonder why some people bother sending their children to school?

130 replies

StatelyPoshBeartrothal · 01/05/2011 16:17

This was sparked by the term time holiday thread, but is NOT a thread about a thread. Choosing to take your DC out for a holiday, while not something I will do (preschoolers ATM) doesn't mean you don't value your child's education IMO.

However, the thread is riddled with people saying "they'll learn as much on a family holiday as they do at school", "Ask what the lessons planned are - no doubt watching a load of DVDs" etc etc

Do people really value the education provided to their children so little? Or are these the people who home ed or go private? How does the panic over getting into a "good" school at admission time turn into such dissilusion a few years later? Is this the schools' fault?

OP posts:
mummytime · 01/05/2011 22:18

When they are little (definitely primary) it is very unlikely they will ever be only taught something once, so they can usually catch up with what has been covered in school.

The only time we took ours out of school for a week, e took them to a conference in Antwerp. They did lots of swimming and walking, we visited Cathedrals and Art Galleries, and an Aquarium. They mixed with lots of adults from lots of different countries. They learnt how to use a foreign transport system, and a few words of Flemish (push, pull, thank you and good night). I think they learnt a lot, and in ways that will really stick with them. If we were rich enough that all Geography and language could be taught by travelling to the relevant countries. History and art by visiting the relevant sites (and RE by going to Israel and the sites of Paul's travels in the Mediterranina, plus visiting places important to other religions). And so on, then this would be the best kind of education.
However as we are not as rich as Bill Gates, we sed them to the best schools (State) we can. They get a good education, but that doesn't mean we damaged it when we took them out of school, and occasionally there are other opportunities which are "too good to miss".

annapolly · 01/05/2011 22:43

My DS is 10 and his year are going on a residential trip for a week.

DS does not want to go, so the school have said he will sit at the back of the year 4 class for the entire week.

DS is hoping to get into the best grammar school in our area, so I have arranged a tutor for the week his class are away, he would do some mock 11 plus exams.

His attendence is good and he scored 5C in his last sats.

The school have turned down my request.

If I wanted to go on holiday, or lied and said I did, that would be ok.

I fail to see the lodgic in that.

This makes me think, that the school thinks rules are more important that education.

nailak · 01/05/2011 22:51

my dauhter is currently learnin about herself and the world around her as a topic, in school they do thin such as talk about family, different cultures and countries etc,

so how does them bein able to actually visit their family, randparents, experience different cultures and countries etc not an educational experience? education is about experiences not just bein tauht in a classroom settin.

personally the fact that we are not allowed to take my dd out of school in term time means that we cant visit my elderly dad for the forsseeable future as the prices in holidays are beyond our budet and this means my dc will probably have no meetin with him before he dies, and i will not see him before he dies.

does the op seriously think that spendin this time with their randfather and havin these memories are not educational? or is education only academic and not cultural and emotional in her book?

PumpkinBones · 01/05/2011 22:52

I am taking DS1 out of school end Sep for a holiday because it is loads cheaper and I want us to go abroad.

My mum was bemused when I told her this was a contentious thing to do, as apparently it just used to be the case that you filled in a form and off you went. I went to Canada for a month of term time when I was 12, and no-one thought anything of it.

It isn't that I don't value education, although yes I am a bit disillusioned with his school since he actually started at it - it's just that school, whilst being very important, is just school - I'm their parent and I genuinely don't believe that children miss that much in a week. Obviously exam time for older children is different.

Butterpiecrimearea · 01/05/2011 23:16

IME, exam time is exactly when kids need to be taken away from all that noise and distraction. But I was an odd child - I managed to get special dispensation to sit in a side room and study.

RoadArt · 02/05/2011 00:02

To answer the OP question.

If you take a child on holiday, to observe different cultures, lifestyle, scenery, food or whatever, it is an experience they will always remember. When they hear people talk about where they have been they will be able to answer questions and visualise the reality, etc.

Kids dont always remember what they have learnt at school because it doesnt mean anything to them and they cant relate that knowledge to reality.
At school they get exposed to so much information about so many topics they cant take it all in. Mix this in with personal experience and it will be a lifetime knowledge.
All in all though, most schools do a great job with educating children.

Original poster
StatelyPoshBeartrothal · 02/05/2011 07:21

"does the op seriously think that spendin this time with their randfather and havin these memories are not educational?"

no nailak, please read the thread. I ahve expained a few times that this is not simply about taking DC on holiday in term time. I hope you and your DC get to see your dad. I would, in the same situation, make the same choice.

It is about people who, when faced with that decision make comments like "they'll only watch DVDs anyway" or imply that any holiday is more educational than any schooling. Apparently what you learn on a beach with your non-teacher parents trumps the 2 weeks of schooling you would have had.

OP posts:
Original poster
StatelyPoshBeartrothal · 02/05/2011 07:25

And OK I accept visiting a diffferent country can help with geography, history, langauges, art, appreciation of culture/religion, food etc.
What about maths, english, physics, chemistry, biology? /For those two weeks, surely they are sacrificed? As I have said that may be a good trade, but it is a trade.

OP posts:
noodle69 · 02/05/2011 07:43

I went on numerous holidays in term time when I was a child. I never missed anything important as the teaching was of a very poor quality.

Original poster
StatelyPoshBeartrothal · 02/05/2011 07:46

So was there no chance of changing your school? Or was the poor quality teaching just accepted?

OP posts:
noodle69 · 02/05/2011 07:55

I went to quite a few schools but none were particularly good tbh. I went to private school until I was 7 so comparing the 3 state schools I went after that none of them were any good ime.

One we had 23 supply teachers in year 7 so we didnt learn anything for the whole year. We did watch loads of videos and were just sat with worksheets.

I then went to another school and the lessons were very poor. We did things like watch a video about working in a sandwich factory for food tech.

Then my GCSE years I went to school where we didnt have to read any books at all for GCSE English Literature. All we did instead was do it of the anthology as they didnt think anyone would read a full book.

bulby · 02/05/2011 08:06

Can I add a teacher perspective?
The truth is that for most kids a family holiday will not effect their education in the long run and I can fully see why people do it. The side those parents do not always see is; it may not just be their child who is missing at that time, this can be a nightmare if those kids are missing a practical aspect of coursework or a controlled assessment, the child misses fundamental concepts meaning they spend the next few weeks wondering what the heck they are currently learning in addition to that which was missed. The way I teach is interactive I cannot just 'give' your child the work they'veissed.

RoadArt · 02/05/2011 08:34

Bulby
The problem is a lot of parents dont realise that this happens so dont realise the impact of what can happen if taking kids out. If teachers were more open then parents might understand better.

Highlander · 02/05/2011 08:38

I cannot believe that the govt doesn't enforce a moratorium on school holiday price hikes.

It's very sad, and very unfair, that parents cannot afford a nice holiday during the school holidays.

I also think it's very snobby when MNers retort, 'parents should just plan a cheap holiday'. What a nasty "I'm alright, Jack" attitude.

Bonsoir · 02/05/2011 09:04

Holiday prices are subject to market conditions - that's never going to change. Look at it another way - prices go down outside school holidays, rather than go up during school holidays.

The best way to get good deals on travel is to plan well ahead.

bronze · 02/05/2011 10:17

"And OK I accept visiting a diffferent country can help with geography, history, langauges, art, appreciation of culture/religion, food etc.
What about maths, english, physics, chemistry, biology? /For those two weeks, surely they are sacrificed? As I have said that may be a good trade, but it is a trade."

Really? Do you not do things with your children all the time that help with these things? Go and find your seat it's number.... what number are we at now? Mummy what are clouds made of. Mummy I know why aeroplanes can take off... well tell your brother then. Mummy where are we staying... here, show me which way you think we will go.
I teach my children through life.
And for my own education I have said plenty of times and still stand by the fact that I learned more from my parents/family and reading than I ever did at school and I really wish my Mother could have HEed me.
I think the two things can be on a par. Just different ways of learning.
The reasons people use school though are wide and varying. In my case I am considering home ed but need to learn to drive to make it viable. I have my second lesson on saturday. Educating your child is a legal (and moral) must and sometimes people who would prefer an alternative to school but are just not able to do that so have to stick with school even though they don't think it is as valuable.

Bonsoir · 02/05/2011 10:21

School is really good for the things that are quite dull and repetitive. Like handwriting and spelling and times tables and number bonds.

Original poster
StatelyPoshBeartrothal · 02/05/2011 12:08

bronze so if you can do all those things just as well as school, what possible value does school provide? \yes of course i do those things, I don't for a minute imagine it could replace proper teaching, simply complement and reinforce.

OP posts:
Original poster
StatelyPoshBeartrothal · 02/05/2011 12:10

Sorry just read in more detail - you would choose to H Ed and are making that happen. So you think schools are rubbish and are choosing not to send your child. What I don't understand is people who still think they are rubbish, or that a trip to the park is equally educational, but never consider an alternative.

OP posts:
motherinferior · 02/05/2011 12:14

My children - aged seven and 10 - rather like school. They have maintained a huge enthusiasm for what they learn there; they're challenged, they are stretched and they are doing extremely well.

Yes, of course hanging out with their parents and going abroad and being made to look at Culture is educational and instructive and all that. But it's complementary to what they do at school.

mummytime · 02/05/2011 12:28

They don't at "primary" school do maths as complicated as exchange rates, never mind time conversion. My kids always complain that they find school science a bit boring because they already know that, as I am a Science geek. English, well lots of reading, and letters home or a holiday diary?

At secondary I would be less inclined to take them out (and less likely to get permission). And GCSE years are sacrosanct (for the most part).

Prunnhilda · 02/05/2011 12:30

I definitely don't value school less, but I do think that school works best when it rests on a foundation that is built at home. School teaches him some things that we couldn't, and we do some things that they can't.

School does move more slowly than home/holidays. Partly that's pedagogy, and partly class sizes. It provides a lot else (being part of a big gang, enjoyable rules and privileges, etc) but I don't have any qualms about a couple of extra weeks out of it.

Original poster
StatelyPoshBeartrothal · 02/05/2011 12:31

so your children are learning nothing in maths and science at primary school? Shock
Private is looking better and better!
Do you not complain about this?

OP posts:
maighdlin · 02/05/2011 12:34

its threads like this that make me glad i live in NI (one of few reasons) summer holidays are from end of june to start of sept. The first two weeks in july kids will be off but the school holiday premium is not added yet as schools in E&W are not off yet, so we can have a two week holiday without having to pay a fortune or taking the kids out of school.

Prunnhilda · 02/05/2011 12:38

Are we talking about primary schools here?
I think you have very high expectations! Primary (early on, anyway) is s..l..o...w.... but thorough. Thorough isn't always that interesting.