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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to wonder why some people bother sending their children to school?

130 replies

StatelyPoshBeartrothal · 01/05/2011 16:17

This was sparked by the term time holiday thread, but is NOT a thread about a thread. Choosing to take your DC out for a holiday, while not something I will do (preschoolers ATM) doesn't mean you don't value your child's education IMO.

However, the thread is riddled with people saying "they'll learn as much on a family holiday as they do at school", "Ask what the lessons planned are - no doubt watching a load of DVDs" etc etc

Do people really value the education provided to their children so little? Or are these the people who home ed or go private? How does the panic over getting into a "good" school at admission time turn into such dissilusion a few years later? Is this the schools' fault?

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activate · 01/05/2011 19:29

children have to be absent for 20 consecutive days with the school having no contact with family and not knowing where child is before they can be off-rolled by the school - plus the parents have to be informed of the intention to off-roll the child

it is not that easy to take a persistent absentee off the school roll

Bogeyface · 01/05/2011 19:31

When we took the kids to France they saw the art in the Louvre, the Bayeaux Tapestry, the Normany landing beaches, the war graves, learnt some french, loads of things that they just wouldnt have "got" in the same way had they been in the classroom. The teachers were really happy to see what they had learned when they got back to school. But then we arent beach/pool holiday people so maybe that makes a difference. They wouldnt have learnt anything in a holiday club or on the beach all day!

So yes, I do believe they learnt more on holiday than they did in school. And depending on the time of year, they can spend alot of time watching DVDs etc, if it is the last couple of weeks of the summer term for example. So it needs to be weighed up really.

c0rn51lk · 01/05/2011 19:31

I've never heard of that happening TBH - EWO would be involved first surely

bronze · 01/05/2011 19:32

Stately- maybe those people think that it's rubbish but it's really their only choice

wotnochocs · 01/05/2011 19:35

I don't get why people want to send their kids the message that all rules must be slavishly and mindlessly followed rather than examine the pupose of teh rule and the consequence of breaking it and weigh things up .

StatelyPoshBeartrothal · 01/05/2011 20:16

not sure what you mean, sorry bronze?

" plus the parents have to be informed of the intention to off-roll the child "
Do they school just have to send a letter out, or do they need to make sure it has been received? That must be quite difficult in some cases

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motherinferior · 01/05/2011 20:18

I'm amazed at what madly educational holidays everyone else seems to have. We seem to do a lot of, you know, dossing around in the sunshine not doing masses. Occasionally we make an effort and go and look at something important, and obviously the Inferiorettes are usually not very interested, and then we all have an ice cream.

I like holidays. They are not, however, the site of what I would call masses of academic learning for my lovely children.

Ishani · 01/05/2011 20:19

Point being if it does benefit the child educationally then there should be a drive for more families to do it, not fewer! After all, it's a good thing

Like anything some children will benefit immensely and others will just walk the streets for 8 weeks instead of six.
I prefer the two weeks at the heads discretion if you want to system that many schools currently have in place, we've taken two weeks once and when the children arrived back one kid got the hump about where DD had been and decided to bully her for the next two years, boy did we "pay" for that holiday.
As for the enrichment side of the argument, well isn't that what you do between 3.15 and bedtime and the weekends ?

StatelyPoshBeartrothal · 01/05/2011 20:24

Your poor DD :(

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motherinferior · 01/05/2011 20:25

Well, actually I slightly doubt that holidays are, by definition, that madly educational. I suspect that most of them are like ours - the odd attempt at a spot of culture or history, relapsing into enjoyable sloth. That's why they're called holidays. And why we need holidays. Including kids. To switch off for a bit.

And no, I don't agree that 'there should be a drive for more families to do it' even if their holidays do consist of relentless instruction and mind-broadening. I do not think that my kids' teachers should have to hold together a patchwork of different children's attendance, with the consequent effects on those children's learning.

StatelyPoshBeartrothal · 01/05/2011 20:29

No I agree with you mi! I am being stupid - so many people argue that holidays are equally/more educational than actual school, well if that were the case surely logically they should be encouraged rather than discouraged?
As I said before I can see why some people make the decisions to take children away that they do, and this isn't a thread about that/ but when people claim that holidays are as educational as school, or that they don't learn anything in school that they wouldn't get from a day in the park it makes me think...well why do these people send their DC to school?

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motherinferior · 01/05/2011 20:30

My children have learned a lot since they started school. Very little of this was during the holidays Grin.

PartialToACupOfMilo · 01/05/2011 20:40

We had a boy taken out of school for a few weeks to go visit family in Pakistan. School were not happy with the decision, said as much, but ultimately the boy didn't turn up for school and there wasn't much school could do about it. Later on in the year boy did badly in his assessments and parents wrote in to ask why his grades had slipped and what we were going to do about it?!

Grammar school, places very much fought over and first year of GCSE course...

gabid · 01/05/2011 20:46

I was very against taking kids out of school before DS was school age (now Y1), but I am mellowing. Now I would consider taking him out for a week at the end of the year or a couple of days at end of term (haven't done it yet though).

For me its about the money, if we paid £500 less, yes I would do it, not in the middle of the term though. And I think on a holiday they may not 'learn' more than in school, but they experience more, e.g. different countries, cultures, food, ways of life and, yes, they may learn a bit of this and that. Of course, all that is limited on a beach holiday, but our DC (2 and 6) couldn't sit still on a beach/resort all day anyway - sometimes I would love to hang out with a book all day though, but the time will come when they are older.

motherinferior · 01/05/2011 20:47

The very idea of a relentlessly educational holiday makes me feel quite faint.

MillyR · 01/05/2011 20:56

For me, it is relaxing to do a lot of cultural things on holiday. I would do a lot more if I didn't have to balance it for the kids because kids don't want to be dragged around landscapes, theatres and museums every day.

But I think if a child has never seen any coastal area, then it is a very educational experience to go to the seaside, go rockpooling, see coastal tourism, see the tide come in and go out, see boats on the sea and so on. If a child has never seen the sea, then going there is far more educational than a week in a classroom.

It doesn't mean the parents don't appreciate what goes on in the classroom for the other 29 weeks of the school year.

xstitch · 01/05/2011 20:57

I can't afford a holiday in the school holidays so I don't go, I would take dd out of school if it was travelling to a family funeral or something like that but nothing else.

Bonsoir · 01/05/2011 20:57

I think school and holidays (in our household and country) are of equivalent educational value, but fulfil quite different functions: school imparts technical skills and holidays are the time when those skills are tried out/applied to real life situations.

I don't take DD out of school during term-time because of this (and because there really are more than enough holidays anyway).

Butterpiecrimearea · 01/05/2011 21:36

I'm dreading sending my DD1 to school - I'm desperately trying to convince myself that her learning and education won't slow down drastically, but I can't see how even a dedicated teacher can give 30 kids the same attention, and how on earth being shut up in a classroom for hours can be any good, when there are so many museums, woods, shops, libraries, seasides and so on that could be visited. I think all we can do is try to encourage her not to lose her love of learning and curiousity.

From what I can gather, DD1 has learned more today than she will in a day when she is at school, by a long way, and she has just been pottering about at home and at her grandparents, doing a couple of pages of a workbook, singing beatles songs, watching funny videos on youtube, making model planes with DH, playing in the garden and helping look after her baby sister.

Both kids currently do 3 afternoons and a full day at nursery. I'm thinking of dropping an afternoon as nursery is taking up a bit too much time, although it is definitely a good thing in our lives. The girls get to spend time with other adults and children, we get time apart, and they get time apart from each other, DH and I get time to work (and I get the break that I need in order to stay well), and I think it benefits the girls to have other adults reinforce their learning. However, we don't expect nursery to "steer" thier education in the way that we, as parents, do.

The amount of people in my university class who hadn't even read what I would consider to be what an interested GCSE student would have read (I studied English) who all seemed to shrug and say they would probably train as teachers if nothing better came along scares me. If they couldn't get excited about literature, with all its history, sociology, wordplay, philosophy and so on, how on earth will they get a load of kids excited about basic sums and learning to read? I also know a lot of very dedicated and educated teachers, but it is that gamble that worries me.

I want to HE, but my health won't allow it. I want to flexi school, but the school probably won't allow it. We'd love to set up a free school, but again my health wouldn't stand up to being responsible. So DD1 will (if she ever gets to the top of a waiting list for any school in the area) be going to school. If we get the chance to take her places that are more exciting than school, and she can't go in the holidays, then, yes, she might miss some school.

Although this thing of all the school beings full does worry me - there were only ever 26 or so kids in each class I was in - I think there weren't as many babies born in 1985 as there were in other years. We could leave school and come back if we wanted (not that my parents would have ever challenged the status quo).

I know it is disruptive, but, if the school system won't give engaged parents any other option, and there is a big re-enactment, performance or lecture going on, well, the kids will go there.

Then again, we have only ever taken the kids to see family in the uk as any type of holiday (apart from one long weekend in Haven in Southport last year). I don't have a passport. Maybe if I was the kind of person that could afford passports I might have a different opinion, but, as it stands, I think the education of my children is my responsibilty. If the school are sympathetic (which I hope they will be) then we will be glad to follow their rules in return for free childcare and some education, of course, and be very grateful. However, I hear endless stories of bored kids, poor education and there just not being enough attention or resources to go round. So, yeah, I do think a day off every now and again to do some concentrated one on one exploring and learning, out in the real world, is better than another day of lining up and being quiet.

...not sure where my rant is going now, sorry :)

Butterpiecrimearea · 01/05/2011 21:41

It is school that gives people the attitude that learning isn't fun - all children start off wanting to know about everything, and once adults get over school they tend to start being interested in learning again - what could be better than a library, or even a few hours spent on a good, informative website?

A relentlessly educational holiday? What, one where I would get to learn about a different culture, speak a new language, taste new food, chat with my family and new people, maybe learn to swim, and spend hours just lying in the sun, enjoying the feeling of existing and so deepening my knowledge of life? Yes please :)

StatelyPoshBeartrothal · 01/05/2011 21:41

I think you're agreeing with me BP. You have a low opinion of schools and would HE if you could. I think the difference is that you disagree with school in principle - even the best school wouldnt be "good enough" because schooling is not what you think is best for your DCs.
However, I can't believe everyone who claims they learn nothing in school is in your position.
Sorry to hear about the waiting lists btw, did you apply for a place for your DD? Does she have anywhere at the mometn?

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Butterpiecrimearea · 01/05/2011 21:43

Oh, and sorry - I just read that long post back and it is very rambling - I had been adding to it on and off all evening, and obviously lost my train of thought...

Butterpiecrimearea · 01/05/2011 21:47

We applied to three schools, well before the deadline. She got in none. She is now on the waiting list for four schools!

It's mental - I really wasn't expecting her to not get in any! After all that soul searching about applying in the first place, it knocked me for six.

StatelyPoshBeartrothal · 01/05/2011 21:54

Shock no that is really really bad
I've not heard of anyone getting 'worse' (excuse the expression) than their second choice round here. You have been really unlucky.

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xstitch · 01/05/2011 22:00

I have heard of a lot of children not being allocated a place at a school. The whole system appears to be in a complete mess.