to wonder why some people bother sending their children to school?

[StatelyPoshBeartrothal]

This was sparked by the term time holiday thread, but is NOT a thread about a thread. Choosing to take your DC out for a holiday, while not something I will do (preschoolers ATM) doesn't mean you don't value your child's education IMO.

However, the thread is riddled with people saying "they'll learn as much on a family holiday as they do at school", "Ask what the lessons planned are - no doubt watching a load of DVDs" etc etc

Do people really value the education provided to their children so little? Or are these the people who home ed or go private? How does the panic over getting into a "good" school at admission time turn into such dissilusion a few years later? Is this the schools' fault?

i'm taking ds (5) out of school for 3 days ( the 2 other days are staff training) we will be going to museums,life boats i will still read him bedtime stories, doing number work on the beach by asking him to build 3 sand castles ect.

he has been approved the time off school as his attendance is 100% there policy is that a child has to have good attendance to be approved a hoilday.

i do belive a hoilday can be educatinol, it what you do

Stately - I can remember thinking exactly the same as you when my DS (now 10) was younger and having heated arguments on Mumsnet about how awful it was to take holidays in term time - however, my views have mellowed somewhat. I do value the education the school provides, and to be honest would like the school my DS attends to be a lot more academic but I have now, on just two occasions, requested 'authorised leave' during term time (no more than 5 days) and both times at the end of term when, quite honestly, there was a lot of DVD watching, trips to the pantomime, parties (yes, in school time) etc.

In no way do I pretend that a holiday is educational, it just suited our family arrangements.

So. in a waffly sort of way I am saying that you may change your mind as your children get older .

I think the bulk of it is parental justification for taking the holiday in the first place but a lot of people sadly dont value school or the teachers and see it as a babysitting service.

I took my Year 7 DD out of school to go skiing in jan this year and got a letter from the school chastising me etc as it was not school policy but have recently had a letter from school promoting the educational school skiing trip scheduled for 2012 should your child wish to go. A little two faced me thinks!!

bronze, as I have said in the OP this isn't about the decision of parents to take a child in term time - presumably you have done your weighing up and deicded that it makes sense for your DC to see their GPs rather than not - makes sense to me and I would probably make the same decision in those circumstances. Personally, I have no such circumstances, and can't envisage anything like that for my 2 but you never know. However, when people start a thread asking about this, they are inundated with posts such as "oh they learn notihng anyway", "two weeks on the beach will be just as educational as all that English and Maths" etc etc and it;s those comments I have an issue with. Presumably you have decided (understandably) that the benefits are worth the drawback, but those sorts of posts imply there are no drawbacks, and I disagree.

Ragwort I may change my mind. As I have mentioned above, i can't see a situation right now, bu that might chnage. That isn't really the point of this thread though, I am ranting about people who think so little of education that any holiday trumps any day at school, or that attendance is not necessarily a good thing. What on earth is the point of sending them?

In my DDs indie school you are given masses of time for hols if you want them...nobody takes more than a couple of weeks a year...and the results are still excellent. The kids progess wont be halted by some holidays but it will be by bad teachers.

Of course children benefit more by having a relaxing break and spending quality time with their parents, than a week or 2 at school.Schoolwork can be caught up with ,creating family memories can't.

really wotno? SO if that s a fact why aren't schools shutting for an extra two weeks and giving the money they save to the parents to have a holday with their DCs? After all it is beneficial, isn't it? Someone other than me must have thought of that?

Because StateyPosh that would garner complaints from the parents who work.

..private schools do .Shut for an extra 2 weeks that is.

surely not, they can time leave & have a hol out of school holiday time! cheap etc
teacher parents can do the same
children get this enhanced educational experience
LA saves money
Tourism in other countries boosted
everyone wins!

Nore than 2 weeks wotno :o

If all schools closed for an extra two weeks at the same time the holiday companies would just hike the prices up then too so who would save anything ?

Of course it's possible for children to learn more on a holiday than they would do in school. Children don't absorb learning merely by being in a classroom.

Sounds bloody ace Stately!

Stealth for Education Minister!

"time leave" =- "take leave", sorry
typing with cross DD in arms
think she needs a holiday!

but holidays can be educating. sight seeing in london, seeing real life tudor haunts, horse riding, nature walks, historical visits to egypt, zoo visits, learning how to exchange money, using basic french, navigating using a map, swimming lengths - it all adds to the bigger picture. education is valuable but it doesn't just happen in school. more important though than education -is producing well balanced children who have good family bonds.

It's not just about catching up with work though - of course that can be done, if you have the will and the wherewithal, and especially in KS1.

To me it's:
The example you set them by buggering off when it's convenient
The message you send to the school by expecting them to open and look after your kids when it's convenient, but expecting them not to mind when you don't want to send them in
The message you give your kids about school and education (one of two - either it's 'we are innately superior to your teachers and a week with us is of more benefit than anything they can do with you' or 'fuck school, if I want a holiday I will'
And the subtleties of kids' friendships and groups, which can change beyond all recognition in a few weeks and leave the returning kid in an unhappy or awkward position.

My premise has always been that school is school and you have to go to it except if you're properly ill or there's a funeral or something. I think that's quite a good lesson to learn.

Stately- but you do get people like HappyMummyofOne who make people like me who feel crap. Or would do if I didn't have so much confidence in my decision.

Ragwort- Maybe there is something in that. My children rarely miss school. I would have never considered taking them out in termtime. Like you I was one of those people. I too have mellowed though I still won't let them stay off if I can help it.

ah but ishani it will vary schhol from school, with HTs keeping the dates secret until the last minute to fox the travel companoes

Special consideration given where siblings would clash

Anyway, this is me being stupid. Point being if it does benefit the child educationally then there should be a drive for more families to do it, not fewer! After all, it's a good thing

ahhhthis has become a thread about taing hols in term time. Whichj i wanted to avoid. It's about having the attitude of "school is rubbish anyway"

after exams IME (of four kids - 2 in primary, 2 in secondary) and working in a school they do very little int he last week of the summer term

Just spoken to an Ofsted inspector - if your dc go to a school where it happens a lot it may be more of an issue for you to do it. Apparently, it can count against a school quite badly during an Ofsted inspection and a bad record for absences is enough to send a school into special measures (which means they've failed), even if the rest of the teaching is fine. Which is why some schools may decide that a pupil who is absented cannot return - because they are no longer counted as an absence and therefore the school won't be penalised on it. Apparently some schools have been really heavily over absences like these and are particularly wary.

*really heavily penalised

SPB I was just coming back to post "people seem to be thinking this is a thread about holidays, but..."

< SPB's teachers pet emoticon> :o