to be pissed off at school revelations?

[HKLP]

Have name changed for this as the route in which I found out this info makes me very identifiable.

I always have my friend's DD on Teacher training days as she has to work at the school the DC attend.

My 2DC are off school today and tomorrow as the school decided to manipulate TT days so that the school broke up on 8th April(1.30pm) and return 3rd May. It means the school will be open on Polling Day (with extra safeguarding in place ) and we will not finish one day early in July as we normally do.

That's fine, but obviously 3 weeks and a day and a half makes life very difficult for WOHPs.

After speaking to my friend last night, it was revealed that the staff are not going into school on these 2 days as have worked/will work extra hours after school to make up the time.

Apparently, attendance at afterschool events will count towards this time, rather than actual training. Is this acceptable standrd practice?

AIBU to be pissed off about this?

"...organising a conference".

Make sure you tell them what the dress code is.

smart casual ... would you like to come?

My pint is that we all work bloody hard! Yet all I hear on MN (although never in real life from the many people i know who teach) is how no one understands how hard things are for them and they work all hours god sends blah blah then someone who teaches will always wheel out.. "we dont finish at 3pm, sometimes we dont even get in until half past 6!" like that is somehow later than the rest of the world...

pickyourbrain, teachers tend not to start threads saying how hard they work- they just respond to assertions that they do bugger all.

If someone started a thread about your profession saying you sat around eating biscuits all day, would you not at least refute the accusation?

pickyourbrains - exactly. The teaching unions just don't seem to get it.

The world has moved on. It doesn't stop for 6 weeks in sumer while kids go and bring in the harvest. Kids don't go home at 3.30 to feed pigs and churn butter.

The school year was designed in the 19th Century around the farming industry. I grew up on a farm - but the world of work and our economy does not operate that way. Schools and teachers have to adapt the way they work like everyone else has had to.

Stayfrosty's points, MoreBeta.

Any time you like

Was that a yes MoreBeta?

I reiterate the point I made earlier MoreBeta, that the purpose of school is education not childcare.

As you say, schools have had the same amount of holidays and term days for decades, so it shouldnt come as a surprise to working parents that they will have to arrange CHILDCARE for the days when their children are not being educated. If they are unable to do so, this could be seen as the fault of the parent or wider society, I dont see why teachers are blamed for taking the holidays they are entitled to.

Oh, and before you start, I'm not a teacher. I'm a parent who is very grateful for the fabulous education her children receive.

I wish tethers!

mrz - I will have to decline. I suspect I might spend the conference grinding my teeth and muttering.

Tethers - I DID reply in some detail @ 14:38.

ballstoit - the basis of my arguement is that teaching unions have resisted change for decades and it is no longer tenable. Employent practices and the demands of employers have changed for everyone else in the workforce but not for teachers. Employers demand employee flexibility, demand 24/7 availability and that does not fit in with 19th century school term times and a 3.30 finish.

I'm not sure my DC would cope that well with 8 hr days and 25 days a year off plus bank holidays let alone their teachers.

morebeta not to mention that way way back in the 19th century, it was not considered that children need round the clock care. Then, once the idea came in that they did, it was practice for mum to be at home when the children got back from school.
Since the 70's/80's that has changed. We know our children need to be looked after when not in school, but women want to work.

The school hours system no longer fits with any other part of the way families and societies have developed over the past 200 years.

orm i reckon they'd cope. Most of them are at an after school club, childminders etc anyway.

I'm only an LSA (special school so do more small group teaching as such).

We have 1 inset a year which is teachers only and we do the 6 hours over the year as 'twilight training'. It is important training and beneficial to the safety of staff and pupils.

As long as the school is providing the right amount of days education surely anything else is irrelevant?

MoreBeta nice country hotel- lovely food - national speakers - great company and none of it paid for by tax payers?

pickyourbrains - I hardly dare say it but frankly I do sometimes think the school terms and finish at 3.30 it is a rather convenient way for Govt to keep women (it is still mainly women who do childcare) out of full time employment and off the unemloyment register.

I too agree with you that our DCs cope just fine with after school and holiday clubs.

Mine aren't. They take themselves off home after school and DH picks the youngest up when he finishes with his own class.

I think it would be much too long for most kids. School isn't the same as nursery or after school club.

morebeta I think that is exactly it. The school system definietly doesnt support both parents working. Let's take the 9am start. So basically you have to pay for an hour of child care in the morning if you want to have a full time job. They couldn't start at 8.20 to give parents time to get to work?

I know school isn't child care but the current set up is just plain un helpful to the way the country is developing.

So what then? You want your kids in school 9-5 with only 5 weeks off because 'that's the way the world is folks'? Children as young as primary age??

And this one:
pickyourbrain Thu 28-Apr-11 16:05:20

My pint is that we all work bloody hard! Yet all I hear on MN (although never in real life from the many people i know who teach) is how no one understands how hard things are for them and they work all hours god sends blah blah then someone who teaches will always wheel out.. "we dont finish at 3pm, sometimes we dont even get in until half past 6!" like that is somehow later than the rest of the world...

Personally I have never known a teacher even mention their working hours, unless to pull up some complete fuckwit who thinks everything is done in school hours, and they sit on their arses eating biscuits the rest of the time.

Dh had over a decade in industry before retraining. He knows how the 'real world' works. He doesn't bemoan his hours even slightly (they're worked out differently but pretty similar over the year to what he was doing before - now though he's actually in the same country as his family all the time). Bit galling to say the least that all he hears are people complaining that teachers complain all the time. Wouldn't you find that?

"They couldn't start at 8.20 to give parents time to get to work? "

And kids who's parents are both teachers, or employed in education, what of them?

"I know school isn't child care but the current set up is just plain un helpful to the way the country is developing."

Here I almost agree. What's needed though is better, affordable childcare. To amalgamate education with childcare is to consign future generations to the scrap heap IMO.

MoreBeta, I must have missed your response- I was too busy lounging around eating cake and wiping my arse on children's homework. Let's look again.

Stayfrosty said:

Teachers working 9-5, what an interesting concept. Morebeta i assume your mooted radical overhaul will therefore take into account an end to parents' evening being in the, uh, evening, an end to teachers attending school discos, no more school plays, no more school trips, the school day starting later due to teachers not arriving in the building until 9 (instead of the 7.30-8.30 that is currently the usual arrival time), additional term time cover (after all, if teachers are to have the same statutory holday as everyone else, they should have the same flexibilty wrt when they take it)...?

You said in your post of 14:38:

The logistics are simple. Teachers need to work like any other worker.

That means:

You turn up every day physically present in the school building every day you are actually working - not sitting at home.

You comply with the Working Time Directive. You get 20 minutes break for each 6 hour shift. You get 4 weeks statutory holiday. You turn up 9 - 5 every single day you are not on holiday or ill without fail.

You take 2 weeks of your 4 weeks holiday at Christmas when all schools are shut. You are free to take the other 2 weeks at any time of your choosing outside of specified core teaching months. You do not take Bank Holidays in addition to your 4 weeks. You do not get a pay rise for working a full year and having to physically turn up to work. You do not get an automatic pay rise every year. You have to pay pension contributions that take account of the true value of the pension.

Schools will be open 50 weeks a year and expected to be fully operational just like any other business of critical public service. Hospitals dont shut for 4 months of the year - neither should schools.

Try as I might, I just cannot find any reference to the points Stayfrosty made- she asked if you would be happy to sacrifice parents' evenings and school productions and enquired as to how working parents would be expected to deal with the later start. She went on to ask how the staggered holidays would be covered.

Can anyone else?

D. Must try harder.

8.20 wouldn't give me time to get to work could they try 6.20?

Woahhhhh there, most schools I've worked in have started at 0830 (which, if you have taught teenagers you will know doesn't work well)... it was MoreBeta suggesting starting at 0900? 0900 would be a late start round here!

Omirian MoreBeta's suggestion was actually for only 20 days, to include bank holidays. It is unworkable obviously, but I would sooner home educate than have my children in school that long, or go to the private sector of course.