To want another child but not ....

[firsttimemum77]

I'm 33 with one DC who will be 4 this year. Due to having grown up with parents who had it all one minute and in dire financial problems the next and spending my late teens trying to help them sort their problems (have 3 brothers but they never bothered) I am now a very controlling, I would say, individual when it comes to money, savings and taking no risks. I would hate to have to struggle iykwim.

We are quite okay and our joint income is around £70k. We don't live near any family, so rely 100% on a private day nursery and our DC will be going to private school - solely because they offer after school care on premises and holiday clubs during school holidays, also on premises. Neither me or DH can go p/t as our jobs don't allow it.

So aibu to really want another child but not want to risk 'struggling' if that makes sense. I am so up in the air about this. I want another child, I want to be able to give my DC a sibling and complete my family, but am shit scared of the financial implications I.e one child at private school, the other at private nursery and eventually both at private schools.

We have a really small mortgage ATM but are looking to move, as the area we live in is not so nice. We bought our house when we got married 13 years ago and didn't think about the area, schools or even having children when we bought it. Just wanted to get away from the il's (another story!!) and bought literally the first house we saw! So mortgage likely to go up when we move due to house prices 13 years on!

I would really appreciate some honest views. Am I just being over cautious! Thinking about too many what ifs???

Urrgghh! I don't know what I'm trying to ask! I also had a really difficult pregnancy, birth and PND which was contributed by the fact I had no family around to help. My parents are great but live a distance and also both work and I don't expect them to help!

Do I just need to be slapped into reality!?

There is more to life than money certainly. But it does smooth out lots of life's lumps and bumps and when you have a comfortable 'buffer' you are a lot less stressed and worried.

Love is not enough when it comes to raising children. It just isn't. If it was I would have a houseful.

I understand - going for number 2 is difficult as the less great sides of pregnancy and sleepless nights is still relatively fresh in your mind. You get used to the routine and outlay and getting used to it the first time is a shock!

I agree there are other childcare options out there that would lighten your load financially, which seems like the biggest (mental) barrier - like others have said a nanny or au pair to fill the gaps around nursery or school. I can imagine you have fallen in love with the school in question and its a pain to have to think about it afresh but maybe see it this way - with nanny/au pair + state school you get a much more personal one to one approach and will be able to afford more extra curricular things if the state school is not so good.

I am of the belief that siblings are worth the effort of TTC - I had a horrible preg with DS2 and he's not the easiest baby/toddler but am very very glad we went for it - seeing the pair of them poddling about investigating stuff together is great.

I understand your problem but it is a modern one to do with conceptions of financial security and so on, rather than actual financial need. Generally if people are dithering about having more children it's best to opt for the enhanced human relationship route rather than the financially secure route because with that comes fewer regrets in the long term.

You can address the education issue by moving near to a good state primary school and just paying for wraparound care and topping up the education with music lessons and extra sport and so on. Most prep schools do not really offer a lot more than good state primary schools, they are just rather good at marketing themselves and screening out the lower orders so they feel more homogeneous and reassuring to parents, if I am honest. There's even a psychological advantage to children in some cases knowing a better cross-section of their local community via a state school, and feeling more rooted within it, even if they go private for secondary or whatever.

You have a joint income of 70k and you can afford private school? Where do you live? I am amazed you can afford it.

I think it's reasonable to want another child, I don't think you are being reasonable to think that you will be able to afford private education from 4-18 (plus uni costs) on the equivalent of 70,000 per annum. Here in SW London it costs 2,700 per calendar month (36,000 per annum + extras) from net income to privately educate (day school) two boys - girls are a little cheaper and 1boy, 1girl would reduce the annual cost to about 32,000 per annum). Either stick at one child or accept that you will to state educate.

YANBU It is very wise to think about whether you can afford a child before launching into TTC. If only more people did that.......

Also, whatever people say about £70k being enough to raise a family, the economics are very different if you only earn that £70k by dint of both of you working FT and have no family childcare. Lots of posters don't realise how lucky they are to have GPs to "fill in the gaps" even if that is only occasionally for a trip to nursery, or if a DC is ill.... wrap around childcare is very expensive and i am with OP, in my case private school was the cheapest option (started at 3 yo).

BUT it is amazing how quickly things change - you or your DH might get promotion, you could take in a lodger, you could get a bursary to the school. I agree that perhaps as you want to move anyway, you should investigate an area with good state school provision (not always possible depending on where you live) and preferably an after school and before school club. Also, perhaps get a house large enough to have an au pair to help with those couple of hours after school.

I am speaking from the older end of the age spectrum and only wish I had had MORE dc as it turns out we are fine financially and they have brought/ bring such joy (and heartache.....).

Perhaps you could spend a year "saving" the extra money a second DC would cost (ie cost of FT nursery) and then you would see if you could survive AND have a cushion of money for after the birth. Good luck.

I think the benefits of having a sibling outweigh the benefits of private education. I am an only and when my mum died suddenly I was totally alone in the world (only have a step dad who is not that interested - another story). I am now expecting my 3rd child on a joint income of 40K. My childhood made me want a larger family, and we'll tighten our belts till I can go back part time again. Funny how what you experience in childhood effects the family you go on to have.

Good luck in your decision

I agree that you are being responsible by Thinking about whether you can afford children before you have them.
But I also find it hard to believe that paying two sets of school fees is the most economical way of getting wraparound care. private schools have very short terms, so unless the ones youre thinking of provide all yr round care for their holiday times, you would end up using other types
Of care anyway. I agree about moving, finding good state schools and using breakfast/ after school club, or a cm to do the school runs or even an au pair/nanny. That has to be cheaper than committing to 2 sets of school fees right through to 18! Are you sure this is just about the care issue or are you scared of using the state education system? Did you go to private schools? Most state schools are fine, and some are amazing and streets ahead of a lot of privates.
Lastly I think intending to educate privately for 2'kids on 70k is madness- you will
Struggle and your kids could end up missing out on all the things that will enrich their lives- music lessons, theatre trips, holidays. Remember too in private school you will have to pay for all extras like trips and piano lessons

I think you are overthinking it.

£70K is a generous income. if you are anxious about future school fees, then why not start an investment scheme now?

My experience (mixed private and state education; half brothers who went back to live with their mum when I was about 9), is that siblings have been far more influential, positive and valuable on my development as an adult than private education.

I am pg with DC2 and like many people on here, our joint income is considerable less than yours.

I understand.

Do you know how many toilet rolls are currently in my cupboard?

34

Yes. 34 toilet rolls.

Do you know why?

Because my parents were so irresponsible that they would rather spend their last penny on choc or fags than on basics like toilet roll, milk, bread...

Most of my childhood was spent wiping my arse on pages from books, or on newspaper. Loo roll was a luxury. Can you imagine that?

Anyway. I actually panic if I run low - low being fewer than at least 10 rolls. My heart pounds.

I also grew up being rushed upstairs to hide from various debt collectors etc it was not just about toilet rolls Xmas gifts to us sold in January, running out of gas / electric. no hot water for a bath etc etc. And dad was working! They were just shit with money.

So I understand the fear. I think I know perhaps how you feel, what drives you to behave this way.

You are being unreasonable. You have enough money. More than enough. For two children. For three children! for four children! Hell, you could feed and clothe a football team on your wage

But me and my 34 toilet rolls understand how you feel.

Yes - you are over-thinking in one way, but without thinking about other aspects in another way.
I am still of the mind that what if the private school has a 10 week summer break and does not provide care for that whole time? You will end up using another childcare provider anyway! Even if the school has holiday care in place now, things can change, supply and demand etc. And when your kids are older and at secondary school and no longer need the childcare, you will still be paying enormous fees on the basis that once you did need the care. There has got to be more to this than meets the eye. Be honest op - is this really about the childcare, or are you definitely decided your children can only attend private school and you're struggling to know how you could afford that with more than one child? It really isn't the most economical option. Loads of parents use private nursery btw as thats their only option at pre school , and then switch to state primary with a good childminder

Also agree that the benefits of a sibling far outweigh the benefits of private education. Which is why I am ttc no2 when we are pretty skint. Our financial situation will hopefully improve but I'm 39 and my chances of conception won't.

Not many people will say this out loud but I do know people who've regretted having additional children especially when things crop up and the child needs private education for example and they cannot go because of child number 3's arrival (tbh it's always 3 and 4 that breaks the camels back).

My husband is an only child and he loved it as a boy but really wishes he had a sibling now. I think with 2 children you'll be absolutely fine, just make sure it's not twins lol

If you are happy now and it makes you happy and secure to be in a comfortable financial position then I would just stay as you are tbh. If however you are desperate for another child and it is making you unhappy the yearning for a second child then of course it is affordable but you will need to reassess your priorities.

I actually disagree that having a sibling outweighs the benefits of a private education, I think that is a generalisation and each family is different and what is good for some, isn't so good for others.

You're only 33. You can wait quite a long time to have DC2, and a big gap would considerably ameliorate the problem of having two at private school at the same time.

But as far as I can see it, you can only afford private school OR a bigger mortgage. Either stay in the same house, pay off the mortgage, and pay for private - or move into the catchment of an excellent state school. But you will have to choose.

Well I went to a state junior school, won a scholarship to a private school, went there for three years, moved to a grammar school, then went to a state funded college, and three different universities, and am currently in the process of completing my Masters. I will be sending my children to state school all the way. Private education does not prepare you very well for life unless you only intend to mix with those with an income over 100k for the rest of your life. My son has just started at the local nursery which he loves. I don't think private ed is worth using as a basis for how many kids you have and tbh basing your life soley on money is never going to make you happy. Don't live your life in fear.

Wow! Wasn't expecting quite so many responses. Will read them all in a bit.

(and I too think that educationally most private primaries are a waste of money. Secondary another story. But I wouldn't bother with primary.)

HecateQueenOfTheNight

'But me and my 34 toilet rolls understand how you feel.'

I am kind of like that but with actual money/mortgage/insurance. One of the strongest memories of my childhood is overhearing my mother crying in the kitchen talking to her friend saying that basically she was going to lose the farm/house. My father had died and she worked bloody hard to hide how hard it was for her to keep us all together and fed and keep the place operating.

To do this day I don't know how she managed to hold onto it. But I don't want to be in that position if there is any way I can avoid it. It gives me a little sick feeling in the bottom of my stomach when I think about it.

And it is that little sick feeling that seems to be outweighing the longing feeling for that third baby.

It is a bugger.

Yanbu but i think you need to relax a little bit. I have 2 dc 1 at prep and the other going this year i really wanted a third but couldn't afford it however i have found myself pregnant with no3 and we'll just have to manage. Lots of schools offer bursaries and second child discounts so if your wise its not impossible to consider.

What i would advise is that my dd gets far more from her brother than she ever will from her prep school. They are best friends. dds school has lots of only children of ft working parents and the school is amazing but i do feel sorry for these children. It's alot of pressure to put your child under

moved to a grammar school, then went to a state funded college, and three different universities, and am currently in the process of completing my Masters

Which hardly makes you the average child, bright ones will do ok where ever they are and those with educational/behavioral issues get the attention and the funding, it's the other 70% of children that private schools are a lifeline for.
I hate it when people who's parents have done their very best, made sacrifices and then turn around and say they wasted their money, how do you know what would have happened if your parents hadn't put you first and entered you for that scholarship ?

Private schools are a lifeline for 70% of children?! Are you making the figures up?

Perhaps the ops child is clever enough to cope with the state system anyway