To not allow my children to play with guns?

[SacreLao]

Just wondering really as my partner thinks I am a really mean and evil mummy.

I don't allow guns as toys, AT ALL!
That means no toy guns, no playing gun games, no making guns, no gun noises etc.

Not really sure why other than I don't think children should see guns as toys and grow up to want spud guns then BB guns etc. PLus I really hate it when you see children 'pretend' shooting at people, it just looks so sad.

My children have always had this rule and now at 8 and 7 years old think nothing of it. Very proud that when other children are playing gun games they will speak up and say that they will not play as guns are not toys.

Anyway my partner bought my son (the 7 year old) a army man set for his birthday that included toy soilders complete with guns. I agreed that he could keep the army men but I was going to throw the weapons away.

Seemed like a fair agreement to me but my partner thinks I am OTT over this and that guns are a normal part of childhood.

Clearly it's my children, my rules but I was just wondering how many mums on here do or don't let their children play with guns, what was your reasoning behind that and do you think you made the right choice?

I had this rue until DS1 was about 3 and he started making guns out of lego! At which point I accepted that guns were going to be part of his toy collection and s he might as well have the fun ones that make lots of noises and flashing lights etc. My boys love things like Star Wars so really need the weopons for their games, just as me and my DB did when we were kids. There's no evidence that playing with toy guns makes them want the real thing and I have heard several stories of boys who were banned from toy guns joining the army! So I let my boys play their war games, but in order to make sure they don't glamourise war too much I make sure they see the coffins coming back from Iraq. And reading books set in war time so they can see the impact on the characters (eg Michael Morpurgo books or Goodnight Mr Tom) is also a good way of helping them distinguish between the excitement of fantasy wars and reality where war is hell.
In answer to the OP - they're your children so you can make the rules, but personally I don't have a problem with kids playing with guns.

MsScarlett-just wait until you have a boy-if you do!!
Boys have an inbuilt ability to make gun noises. I was a single parent, against guns and DS didn't have older siblings-or anyone to get the gun idea from and yet he sat in his high chair chewing his toast into gun shapes! The first thing he made with duplo was a gun. It is a boy thing and completely harmless. Read Penny Holland's 'We don't play with guns here:war, weapon and superhero play in the early years' see here

After my experience, and another 2 DSs, I have completely changed my mind. Boys need it. It is like watching animal cubs at the zoo, or on film, boys are physical. Since DS1, who made toast guns, is in his 20's now it has not made him aggressive in the slightest way. I didn't buy guns myself but I didn't ban them. They know it is pretend-which is why they are perplexed by the adult stance.

Exoticfruits thanks for that link, very interesting link that explains that children can distinguish between play and reality, and the importance of having these two experiences.

It certainly backs up my experiences- 70's childhood, loads of cowboys and injuns/ solider games, no armed killers among us yet. My kids have made guns out of anything that could be pointed.

I don't meant to go off on a tangent but my older two have progressed to X box war games which I was very uncomfortable with. However we had a conversation where DS explained to me that they knew it was a game, that they could clearly distinguish between fantasy and reality, which I think is the point of Penny Holland's article.

Mind boggling that you let your son keep the 'army men' (I take it you mean soldiers?) but not the guns. What does your son think the army defend people with...animal shaped water pistols?

And if you think he's never ran around the playground with the other kids, pretending his fingers are guns and shouting BANG BANG! You're probably a bit deluded.

I gave up on the gun ban when DS1 knibbled a cream cracker into a gun shape!

I was like the OP but it didn't work, they play with them elsewhere and experience has shown that it is totally unimportant. Much more damaging to make a huge deal about it. They grew out of fairly quickly.If you get all righteous and ban it they won't grow out of it. They loved laser quest and paintballing. None of them are aggressive and all have always been described at every single parent's evening as 'kind and caring'. Pick your battles and that isn't one of them.
Later on computer games are a much more important one, I didn't give in on 18 games not being for under 18s etc.

Unless you HE and never let boys out of your sight with other boys they will play fighting games. (if you think they wouldn't they are just very good at not doing it while you can see!)

Yanbu I have tried to limit gun toys here. I have 4 ds (9,7,4,2) and there are a few laser space water gun things and the tiny guns that the play mobile pirates have. But I have never allowed those horrible realistic semi automatic things. I grew up surrounded by evil men in balaclavas running round with armalites and went to too many funerals of innocent people slaughtered by guns. unfortunately it is still neccessary for the police here(n ireland) to still be heavily armed and soldiers do still patrol. I find guns sickening literally, I actually start to shake if I'm near one. I know people say boys will be boys, but there are countless games they can play and my ds do play without guns having to be part of it. We had 2 bomb scares here at the local school gate last week. They were hoaxes but caused 2 schools to be closed on 2 days and huge disruption. The culprit was a 14 year old school boy who made the hoax packages and was found in possession of a gun. I dont think you can trivialise children playing war games.

I grew up playing with toy guns, knives, you name it. Nowadays, I hate real guns, would never own one, and despise conflict and violence.

Toy guns don't make kids any more violent than they would be anyway. There's no real reason to ban kids from 'violent' toys except to talk about it, and look like a Superior Thinking Earth Mummy.

I wasn't allowed guns as a child, and don't allow them for my kids, at least not of the sort that they can pretend to shoot people with. Army men with little guns I would probably be ok with, although I wouldn't buy them myself. I suppose that is hypocritical, but I think it is the aspect of the child imagining themselves as being the shooter that bothers me. I'm sure they will use sticks etc, and I can't stop them, but I'm certainly not going to encourage it.

I think it's because I don't like the idea of normalising guns. I also find the image of a child with a gun seriously distasteful. I know that most children won't turn into raving maniacs just because they play with guns, but having grown up in Dunblane, I have seen the consequences of guns being normal and available as a hobby - the seriously sick minded have access to them too, and no one bats an eyelid until it is too late.

That's the way I brought mine up op.
It's fine and good for you.
Of course the kids will play guns with others but they have been taught that violence is not acceptable in my world.

I was googling an article I saw today on the front page of a newspaper (Bham post I think) about the banning of toy guns which look too realistic.

I came across this. I now feel slightly sick. www.kidsarmyshop.com/index.php

Interesting views there.

To those that asked no I do not allow swords either, no toys that look like weapons. My children don't seem to mind or care and have lots of other toys that they love.

I do have boys yes, 2 of them plus 1 girl. They have never tried to make guns out of lego, sticks etc. but one of my son's is autistic (he would never break a direct rule) and the other is not quite 3 years old yet so maybe a bit young.

Some guns do look so real it's scary!

I had a pellet gun as a child and am sorry to say we DID shoot birds, cats and the odd person walking past! Horrible little brats that we were. I don't want my children to behave like this and as another poster said I do think it's hard for a child with special needs to differenciate between a real gun and a toy gun.

I thought i was going to refuse to allow weapons as toys for my boys - as a pacifist I hated the thought of violent games.

My husband said it was unreasonable not to allow the boys to have toy guns - his mum made that rule when he was a kid, and he made guns out of lego, sticks, toast - everything and anything was a gun. I didn't think a child would even have a concept of a gun if we managed to avoid shows with them in... but age 2 my first son was already begging for gun toys. I decided I would rather choose non-realistic gun toys for them that make noises etc than have them turn all their more innocent toys into guns.

Boys just have different imaginations to girls. One of my baby's first words was 'peow!' and at 2 years old he has about 10 different noises for shooting, it covers about half his vocabulary! I say let boys be boys... just teach them that real guns are dangerous.

exoticfruits - that's all fine, apart from I don't think it's right to say it's down to gender. I was also a single parent, with a DD with no older siblings, not in childcare, not watching anything other than CBeebies, no experience of guns, water pistols or toy guns at all and she began 'shooting' with straws, her fingers, sticks, whatever, as a toddler. Still does it and I don't comment. The only toy guns she has now are part of a polar explorer playmobil set and they are tiny ....and necessary to a polar expedition IMO. ;) I haven't banned guns despite not liking them and accept she will want to play that way.

YANBU. My brother and I were brought up with a 'no guns' rule, and occasionally I would play with them at other people's houses, but tbh we just weren't interested. It was explained to us why they weren't nice things to play with. It's not the same as being a 'doctor with a stethoscope' as one poster said, because that's a kind and caring profession. Going round shooting people isn't and I don't see why you would provide the props to aid it.

We weren't allowed swords either. I wouldn't give my child weapons but I wouldn't be able to stop them making them out of Lego etc, but I'd hope that they'd be sensible enough not to want to do so - why is shooting people so much fun?! Genuine question.

Worrall - Not deluded at all, my son is autistic, if he ran around playing with his friends EVER then I would be so god-damn happy I would give him whatever he wanted. He dosn't 'do' interactions. Most likely why he has never tried to introduce gun play.

We are all different Jellybeans-I never had any interest in playing with guns so I can't say, but my DSs did. Like flyingspeghetti's DS they had about 10 noises for shooting (ones that I can't reproduce). It is pretend, they know it is pretend and must be quite bewildered by adults not realising it. I would say it is very active, it involves running, hiding, needing space and is very noisy-all good fun. When my DS was about 3yrs he was always being followed by the 'naughty old villains'-he was frightened-just had a rich imagination-something to be encouraged IMO -even if he did need to shoot them!
Lots of adults enjoy fencing, my DH has recently tried clay pigeon shooting and I can assure you, that despite the recession, the centre is absolutely thriving and has been busy all through the winter, the slack time.

Sorry-fool that I am- I mean not frightened!! Makes the whole thing silly missing the word!

I don't like my DS2 playing with guns. I refuse to let him have them at home, and he knows that this is because i think guns are not toys and something he should be playing with.

But.

When he goes to his Ganga's (my dads) he has toy guns there. He loves playing with them and he and my father play for hours with them I can't say i'm best pleased about this at all, but in fairness, he does not play with them when i'm there as he knows i do not like them. He also knows that if i see him playing with a toy gun i will take it off him, break it into pieces and put it in the bin - i've done so in the past.

At home he does not have any toy guns, but he will make gun shapes from twigs and his fingers etc, using his imagination. I've found the more i try and stop him doing this, the more he does it, so now i don't bother. The only rule we have is that we do not 'shoot' each other.

And on the other side of the coin again we have Manshapes dad. He's an avid gun collector and has quite an armoury. He goes shooting weekly and has taught manshapes eldest son to have a healthy respect for guns. And to be honest, he's making me question my inital gut reaction of 'No way no how' when it comes to the question of guns.

I am very much of the opinion that guns are not toys and children do not need to play with them at all. However our children are growing up in a society where they see guns almost as an everyday thing - you only have to watch Ben10 or some other childrens cartoon aimed at boys to see that. I think we need to teach our children that guns are most certainly not to be played with, but the more we try to hide them from them the more they'll covet them and seek them out. We need to tread that fine line where we don't encourage them to actively seek out the guns and play with them, but we can't make them into something exciting, dangerous and desireable to young, curious teens. If we forbid them completely then they are going to want them even more - i'm slowly finding that out.

I would agree deemented, except that I don't think they are seen as an everyday thing-at least not where I live. The very fact that they are bewildered by adults getting upset is because they don't see guns in RL.
(I might have a different take if I lived in an area with gangs and gun crime)

I can't think of any tv programs that would be suitable for under 2 year olds which contain guns...

I don't think guns should be banned- but don't understand how children under 3 (unless influenced by older siblings) get experience of guns and their uses in the first place. I had to explain to my dd what a gun was at 3 as she ha no idea and didn't understand what the boys at preschool were playing at that age.

Children use play to explore, learn about and make sense of the world they live in and the behaviour of the people around them.

Children who are playing with guns are exploring the concept of war, death, injury, fighting,.... These are real elements of our social world just as much as making the dinner or going to the doctors. Children need to role play all of these to make sense of them. They see fighting on films, children's tv, the news, in the playground, etc all the time.

Guns are not toys but neither are irons or prams but we still give our children toys versions of them so that they can explore the role people take when using them.

If you deny a child the opportunity to explore weaponry you are denying him or her knowledge and understanding of weaponry and also the complex and interlinked development they gain from the play they are missing. Children generally choose play which best supports their development at that particular time.

Far better to develop their interest into an understanding of guns. The science behind how they work, the incredibly complex technology used in guidance systems, the social and emotional impact they have when seen as well as when used. The opportunities to learn from them are immense and will set children up with a deep and genuine understanding.

Surely this is better that making them a forbidden fruit with all the temptation, guilt, resentment and anger that could entail?

Going round shooting people IS a profession - they're called the Armed Forces and a very fine and honourable profession it is, indeed!

I would proudly support my children on joining our forces. When my boys play with guns they have a very clear concept of goodies and baddies and I think that actually hugely important in their moral compass.

Alison - that is a great post and one with which I heartily agree!