to thing that having child number 5 when living in a small 2 bed flat is unfair to all the children.

[byanymeans]

I totally understand that it is in all honesty none of my business how many kids people choose to have, as long as the parents can provide from them. However I really do find it a bit hard to get my head around how one family of 4 kids 2 adults could fit into a 2 bed flat before but last week they came home with baby number 5.

I just don't get how the parents feel this arrangement of 4 kids (oldest child is 13, some boy some girls) sharing a bed room is healthy. They must have no real play space or personal space. I just don't understand why you would want to bring another child into that?

I feel so sorry for the new couple who live below to as the noise from so many feet run around must drive them mad. I don't think that any one has lasted more the 9 months in the flat bellow for years.

I just don't understand they see nothing wrong this having still more without moving it?s not fair on any of the kids.

I am doing a degree MrChips and you are fascinating subject matter.

Thats why.

@ "quite the fucktard"

have not heard that for ages, and how appropriate a time for it to be used

thanks thisisyesterday

I grew up in Devon. My sister and I shared a room. Didn't like it. But there we are, a real person from Devon who grew up sharing a room haha.

Doesn't everyone need to pipe down? Trying to establish a general optimum is mental, as so many have said is objective. Re original post, not what I would want (we are in large 2 bed 2 bath NO GARDEN flat and have 17 months old DS1 and DS2 due next week, bad and irresponsible me) and can't imagine squeezing 5 of the terrors in. But that is me, if it works for them, sweet.

To say people who can't afford children shouldn't have them is too broad. Depends what you mean by 'afford' private schooling, new cars and two holidays a year? Surely everyone can agree children are a joy and a blessing. Why ought the less financially secure not have such a joy?

DH is from North Africa (and no Mrs Chips, in much the same way as I grew up in Devon sharing with my sister, DH DIDN'T grow up in a mud hut lool), it is common for large numbers of extended family members to share a small apartment. He believes it to be sub optimal, but certainly not a reason for a termination, though perhaps an argument for more diligent contraception.

Loving the way everyone's toys are out of the pram here. Would love a 5 bed, 3 bath, 2 garage, large garden gaff and to fill it with wonderful babies and Cath Kidston prints, but can't. So just take my daily joy from kisses from my DS. Who patently I can't afford. Even with tax credits. :)

Children need food, clothes, warmth & LOVE.
Bringmesunshine2009, I think your children will be more than spoilt eh!

Lucky sods, having me for a mum haha!

Yes yes sunshine . How rich do you have to be to afford trips to the library, hikes in the park, lots of cuddles, picnics, dancing around to the radio? Not very. You don't need everything fancy and new. You don't need a thousand square ft of space per person. There's enough for the world's need, not the world's greed.

Hmm I don't agree kids need a room each but I do think having space is preferable and lack of it causes stress and upset. Living with a lack of space is not always some rosy all mucking in together life.For a lot of people it's stressful and miserable.

I've lived in a house far too small for our 3 kids and it was bloody miserable for all concerned-sorry but it was.I have friends stuck in council housing with just 2 kids totally uttterly miserable due to lack of space and who have stopped at 2 children because of it.

We all hated the lack of space and was the reason I didn't have a 4th,I had twins and a surprise soon after so didn't exactly plan for the Squash and a Squeeze life we had.It wasn't until we moved to a bigger house(the previous was supposed to be a very short term stop gap)that I realised just how miserable,hard,stressful and bloody awful it was for all of us.Quality of life is so much better now,the dc are so much happier and chilled.

I'd never dictate how many kids people should have but facts are facts a severe lack of space isn't fun.You make the best of what you've got throughout raising a child and make your own choices but pretending 5 kids in a 2 bed flat isn't going to be mighty stressful for all concerned is just akin to sticking your fingers in your ears and going "la la la la".

Unfortunately Cheerful petrol over here is astronomic as is running a car.If you're not in a city and able to walk everywhere during the winter being stuck indoors in a tiny environment with several kids is like living in a pressure cooker.

Their is no issue with 2 children to one room but when you start talking about 3and 4 children to a room in may e a very small house possibly with no garden you have to start to wonder are they really thinking of the children.

you'd better call social services then, I'll PM you my address. 3 boys in one room and no garden...I'll await my Worlds Worst Mother trophy in the post as well.

Bring you have 1 baby at the moment,when you've actually experienced coping with several children in a tiny space then I'm not sure you'd call it "sweet".

Raising kids in a cramped over crowded environment is far more likely to be stressful for all concerned.Great if you're Mother Teresalike in personality with the patience of a saint but how many are there like that? I had several years teaching experience and I still struggled. The friends I have in the same predicament are some of the most patient fantastic parents in the world but it gets them down and causes stress they'd rather not have.

If you have it foisted on you there is nothing you can do about it and you have to do the best you can but 5 kids in a 2 bed flat-seriously !!!!Do you not think maybe a little thought about wether the 5th was really the best thing for the kids already shoehorned into such a tiny space would have perhaps been a good idea?

to you it is cramped and over-crowded, to many people it is utterly normal and unworthy of comment.

Winter I'm sure they'd swap in an instant.

To pretend people with not enough space aren't bothered and doesn't effect their daily life is incorrect.As I've said I have other friends who are struggling and aren't too proud to admit it.

teaching a class doesn't prepare you for having a family at all

Absolutely. And whether your family thrives on having lots of space so you aren't always in each other's faces, or whether your family thrives on being around each other all the time and just having one another's company, is a matter of how personalities mesh in a family. It might work for some to have loads of spaces to escape from their family members during parts of the day - or more... but it might work for others to have this cosy, homely feel in their homes where they are always close to one another and know each other really well and enjoy each other's presence. To each his own.

Ah, this is the bit where you tell me you know my life better than me. Go on ahead then.

Again not enough space is your opinion, who are you to decide what is enough for people? Do you understand what the word perspective means?

I noticed a typical argument in this thread running along the lines of : "All the people I know prefer to have lots of space and have separate rooms and those who haven't got the space for separate rooms for the children are struggling. Therefore, everyone must struggle as well if they don't have separate rooms for the children."
Faulty logic. Just because your experiences are so, doesn't mean you can generalise for the entire human population.

I agree with lockets and tiger.
Don't try to argue with other peoples' experience...
I adored sharing a room with my sisters. My sister did have the opportunity to have her own room (when everyone else had got married) and she chose to stay sharing with me.
Similarly, we have a spare bedroom upstairs but my dd's prefer to share with each other - they have even shoved their beds together.
But of course we are all DELUDED about this

Aren't you generalising and speaking for people squashed into houses?

Yes I'm speaking from experience but also from common sense. Lack of space makes parenting harder and causes more stress. Yes you may have the patience of a saint but not everybody does.

Mythready my dp hated sharing a room with his sisters,totally and utterly.He hated the lack of privacy.He hated the fighting,arguing,noise......

You don't speak for everybody.Many kids hate being squashed into a cramped environment.I don't get the need to pretend they don't.