I can't afford the trappings of a working class lifestyle

[defeatedslug]

I can't afford xboxes or nintendos for the kids. We don't have a plasma telly of any size. We don't have cable or satellite TV. The kids don't have bikes. We don't have whizzy mobile phones. We don't go on overseas holidays, not even a week on a package holiday, and can barely do youth hostels in the UK. The kids don't have the latest, greatest, trendiest clothes. Their stash under the Christmas tree is pretty conservative. The kids wear hand-me-down clothes including stuff from NCT sales and freecycle. We don't eat out more than a handful of times a year, and maybe have a takeaway every 4 months. We have two very run down and battered cars. We don't smoke. DH drinks maybe 3 or 4 beers a week.

I dress the kids neatly, get them proper fitted shoes, smart school uniform, take them to the library and museums, feed them properly, make sure they're healthy. We both work, and pay a mortgage, and nursery fees. I'm not trying to start a daily-mail-a-thon benefits bashing thread, and I know there will be people that immediately start criticising, but it seems something isn't right that you can be hard-working and be materially less well off than people who don't work - there's not going to be much of an incentive to come off the benefits, is there?

I have namechanged but am regular btw (cod, rivers of sweetcorn, nice ham etc)

Don't really understand what the OP is whining about. I'm 50 and the way we were all brought up was much leaner than that. We had a great childhood - love laughter, picnics, tree climbing, paper rounds to save money (took a year) to buy an old bike. We never ate out - a special treat once in a blue moon was a chip shop supper.
I'd hate to be a kid nowadays.

The HB cap will force some out of the more expensive areas.

Why is it with these (those on benefits are better off) threads that people use someone who is scamming the system to back up the theory? Most people on benefits don't have expensive cars, holidays, consoles, TVs etc. They just have enough to get by.

We don't often eat out even n ow (and I'm not poor) but you can see by the number of fast food places around how much people do now eat out even though it's much much cheaper to stay in and cook.

pliff, i know what you mean i'm the same generation as you but on the other hand many things are so much cheaper nowdays. Tesco and asda sell toasters and irons for £5, web cam for £5, flat screen tvs for £100. Having electric or electronic goods is not a status anymore. People like OP dont get this. Nowdays you can go to asda and instead of meat put some value beans in your basket, then put the web cam too. You dont have to be rich or criminal to afford it and there is nothing to envy.

If OP wants to do envy she can find other lifestyles to get worked up about.

Someone linked to an old Argos catalogue from the mid 80s some time ago - it is extraordinary how expensive some (most) things used to be. Bedding was something like £20 a set - £20 nearly 30 years ago was quite a large sum I can imagine. And nowadays you can buy a set of bedding from Argos for a fiver.

I think a lot of people, wanting to live in a 'nicer' area or a bigger house have mortgages which proportionally are a very high percentage of their wage. I could easily afford a bigger house in a nicer street, however my priority is to keep my mortgage at 8% of household income.

I agree GetOrfMoiLand. We did the same, moved to outskirts of the city, bought a very modest house in a very modest street and have a very reasonable mortgage. Some people want the 'right' house, in the right street, with the right facing, close to the best schools, and to the tube, nothing 'tacky' etc and then they complain about not having much disposable income!

LeQueen ! I soooo wanted a Sindy when i was little.

But GetOrf it must be difficult to get a mortgage to be 8% of your income if you are a new buyer on an average wage.

Infact if you have 2 people on an average salary of about £25K they woudl bring home around £3k a month. If they wanted to have a mortgage of 8% that would be £240 a month!

Well yes it is 8% now, obviously hasn't always been this way, not at all (huge increases in salary and interest rate cuts).

What I mean to say is that I didn't start looking for a nice, bigger, better house when i eanred more money, I just stayed put.

I would imagine most people do exactly that GetOrf. But for most people even buying a very average or even the cheapest house would be a stretch financially.

GetOrf is suggesting that everyone should've bought a house in 1994 as a recent grad (so low wages) and then have their salary increase enormously over the next 17 years!

We bought a very "cheap" house in relation to our earnings, to have gone much cheaper, and paid 8% we'd have been looking at a static caravain.

Bought house years ago for 70K. It is now worth £180K, mortgage of £130K (second mortgage taken out 5 years ago to do improvements and deposit for buy to let).

Take home 6K a month between us.

My youngest sister has never worked, has one child and takes home more in benefits then my two parents who have both worked their whole lives. I earn a decent wage but still rent a property (ladder impossible to get on in my area) and we live fairly frugally but I tell you what, I would rather be me and my family and be proud to say that everything I own and everything we do is down to my blood sweat and tears and not having to go cap in hand to the government for a life.

OP the problem is not working class people - I am working class. There are two issues:

1. People screwing the system. You get them rich and poor and they are all scum.

1. People with no pride in themselves who genuinly believe benefits is a lifestyle choice. I feel sorry for these people rather then envious of their material goods.

Let it go, be proud of what you are doing and forget everyone else. Your kids are getting a great example of living decently and nowt else matters really.

lequeen, how many years did you rent before you bought a house?

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. I remember in the early 90s my aunty had a 1 bedroom flat in Essex, it was an utter millstone round her neck, it was in negative equity, and at the time nobody really thought that the house prices would go back up. She bought the flat for £60K, it was valued at less than £30K.

Of course a couple of years ago she sold it for over £200K.

You can never predict anything - we were very, very lucky. But I am also terrified of things going wrong, that is why I would never wish to increase my mortgage.

Oh and getting a mortgage at 8 percent of anyones income in this market unless you own topshop equates to owning a shoebox. Its easy to say "you should do this" for the generation that benefited from reasonable house prices but the same generation pushed house prices up with buy to let and second home investments - those of us in the under thirty, reasonable income with kids bracket cant do it, at least not in the home counties where I am.

getorf that is a very sensible attitude. The market is so inflammatory that right now staying put is the best bet if you can.

oh so you would have had a much smaller morgage then, eh

one thing i slighlty regret is when we got our first place we could have spent upto about 85k,[ we where v young!]

but we actuualy got a 2 bedplace for 60k after deposit etc

if we had had gone straight for a larger house[85 would have bought a 3 bed back then!] we would have had much more money in the long run

although not saying its the same thing

unless your children are much older there is no reason for them to have an xbox!

just be glad you at least are paying into a house you own.

i know what you mean, it is a shit feeling when you are working hard and not seeing much for it

Pretty before you get shirty read things properly - nowhere did I advise that 'this is what you should do, keep your mortgage at 8% of your income'. I simply mentioned it as something which i consider a priority, as opposed to spending money (as many people do) getting a very nice house, in the right catchment area. In no way am I stupid enough to offer my situation as advice to anyone and I am well aware of how difficult things are today for young people, as I am only just in my 30s myself.

X posts prettyfly - thought your first post was a bit snitty.

Now I feel like a right arse . I'm sorry

'We are all an illness or accident away from disability and a life on benefits. When it happens you often lose everything before you surface from the chaos. House, car, family'

Was thing about that last night.

Having been trown back into dx for the 3rd time, I am well aware of the upset it causes, both in terms of psychological health and general practicalitles.

People who generalise all benefits as the same risk IMO adding to the effects of that time (which does often include ssome PTSD), reducing confidence even further, upping the chances and severity of depressive illness (pretty much endemic in the carer pop anyhow) and extending the time people are dependent ..... a vicious circle which helps nobody and costs the state further.

Perhpas people who like to make negative comments all the time without giving thought to the various causes of dependecy might like to consider how it only makes the situation worse? After all,it's either laziness or malevolence that causes it.