I can't afford the trappings of a working class lifestyle

[defeatedslug]

I can't afford xboxes or nintendos for the kids. We don't have a plasma telly of any size. We don't have cable or satellite TV. The kids don't have bikes. We don't have whizzy mobile phones. We don't go on overseas holidays, not even a week on a package holiday, and can barely do youth hostels in the UK. The kids don't have the latest, greatest, trendiest clothes. Their stash under the Christmas tree is pretty conservative. The kids wear hand-me-down clothes including stuff from NCT sales and freecycle. We don't eat out more than a handful of times a year, and maybe have a takeaway every 4 months. We have two very run down and battered cars. We don't smoke. DH drinks maybe 3 or 4 beers a week.

I dress the kids neatly, get them proper fitted shoes, smart school uniform, take them to the library and museums, feed them properly, make sure they're healthy. We both work, and pay a mortgage, and nursery fees. I'm not trying to start a daily-mail-a-thon benefits bashing thread, and I know there will be people that immediately start criticising, but it seems something isn't right that you can be hard-working and be materially less well off than people who don't work - there's not going to be much of an incentive to come off the benefits, is there?

I have namechanged but am regular btw (cod, rivers of sweetcorn, nice ham etc)

There was a link on here ages ago to the 1985 Argos catalogue. It was shocking how expensive TV's were back then!

I certainly remember when I first noticed microwave ovens - £300.00

An inconcievable price to my young - at the time - mind.

It is Xenia but then people have been about for twenty years no? Our TV is family donated but it's going to go at some stage. Who replaces things that aren't broken unless they genuinely have money to spare?
Besides Ic an;t even see a lot of the newer TVs so frankly pray my old cathode set lasts for a lot longer!

MrsDV is right about mobility; I know people with very severe disabilities who could not get the car needed for hospital appts etc due to the size of the required deposit- running over £4k due to adaptations needed for their specific needs. We don't get one as we get LR mobility X 2 (we may get a blue badge finally soon, as SW has asked to apply for one and will back it). We use that money towards running a car though; DH has to drive to college and for work, and not having a vehicle would cause massive issues for us- I couldn;t get to the palcement that should get me into work, couldn't get ds4 to the 2 morning a week respite we fund, could not get the boys if sick or there's a snow day- by teh time i'd been around the different schools it would be well in excess of £100 and take going for 3 hours. IF I could get a taxi which would be unlikely, there is no bus. I don't see I have options tbh.

Why do people assume that people on DLA aren't taxpayers? We are. many are. It's not means tested.

what are you spending your money on then!

It's best not to judge other people as you don't know their own circumstances. What one people regard as essentials others won't. In a free country you can spend your money how you choose if you're lucky enough to have any spare to spend. When we replaced our non flat screen i got a repair man in for £60 to try to repair it which was a waste as he failed. it is on the ground flat screen one which the chidlren wanted and we got that one summer not a holiday. On the other hand I pay school fees so I shouldn't really be on the thread anyway as I have enough money.

perhaps the op has a serious coke habit!

lol

she must be spending her money on something!

Ah you see Xen that is why I married a techie ;)

can fix most things- never cars though. not sure why, must dig deeper.

Need varies on so much anyway. TBH if I were elderly or housebound completely then I would be far more likely to chuck any cash I had at a fancy TV becuase it would be life enhancing, whereas we chuck ours at petrol to keep in the loop with our hobby so when the boys are older (by which time we hope ds3 will be able to at least come along if not join in) we are not left with nothing and no friends.

Swings and roundabouts, innit?

what a truly bizarre, naive OP.

Since when did ''working class'' come to mean people who ''don't work and have never worked''?

Well, long, long ago, in the 1960's when few women worked, ''working class'' folk didn't own their homes, material possessions were modest and expensive, debt was shameful and manual work was plentiful - the unemployment rate(benefit claimants)was only 3% (simple version, for the OP)

Over the last 50 years almost all of this changed and reversed. And alledgedly, we all became 'Middle Class' homeowning, affluent consumers based on burgeoning credit/rocketing property prices.

Except for a significant proportion of the traditionally manual workers for whom employment and inevitable dependence on state benefits has grown and grown, IMO thro' no fault of their own

Now we Middle Class folks are finding that our employment is disappearing, our salaries stalled, our credit has dried up, our debt has become unmanageable, and our housing costs are astronomical.

We MC are now becoming poorer and poorer in absolute terms and apparently more so relative to the ''non-working class'' whose housing costs are covered by housing benefit.

Sorry OP but find your comments disgusting. My friend and her husband live on disability benefits. He is disabled and she is his carer (it's not as easy as you seems to think to find work in those circumstances and yes, they have tried). They don't go on holidays of any kind, don't have a wide variety of luxury goods, live week to week and are unlikely to ever be able to afford a home of their own.

Stop making sweeping judgements about people you obviously know nothing about.

You don;t ahve to be WC to get HB

You have to be renting and on low income but many WC people own homes and many mc people rent

Also there is provision to cover at least some housing costs for home woners (interst) albeit for a finite time if unemployment strikes. Now, I woudl prefer it that went on for longer in exchange for a lien against the house value (because it cannot work both ways) but there you go.

When we could no longer afford the mortgage due to an ill DH we sold up, cleared our debts and rented; it's hard to do that right at this moment but this crisis will not last.

Of course, you don't have to be working class (except by the OPs strange definition of WC) to receive HB,council tax benefit, mortgage interest relief.

However, if you are eligible for these benefits thro' lack of income it makes a big difference as housing costs are so inflated. The OP presumably doesn't get these benefits like many working people whose disposable income subsequently suffers? And makes them feel hard done by relative to benefit claimants who get blamed rather than the crazy rents and house prices, IMHO.

It's market forces. It will be interesting to see if the capping of HB will lead to lowering of rents. I doubt it as most landlords with sense don't rent to those on HB.

I doubt it too. Market forces certainly favour LL at the moment because there isn't sufficient affordable housing and HB/rent pays for their property investment whilst interest rates are so low. And with increasing unemployment, decreasing wages and incr interest rates, HB will even more frequently continue to subsidise LL despite the capping.

You have a point but the wrong title as working class people who work are very different to some people whose only prerogative in life is to scrounge and not work and those people give people who actually need benefits a bad name

Arent the landlords safer in some ways to accept tenants on RA (HB) whatever you call it. It's guaranteed.

It would lower rents, it would be inevitable. You say 'most landlords with any sense don't rent to those on HB' but quite clearly a huge number of people on HB are renting from landlords who do.

IME experience it's instructive to talk with what you refer to as ''.. people whose only perogative............'' and ask them what employment their parents and grand parents etc had.

Around here, the older generations worked in unskilled agricultural jobs, mining, manufacturing, etc or were liberated from the local 'mental handicap hospital' & asylums. The manual jobs have all but disappeared. Care in the community wasn't able to provide suitable employment and the current generations are inherently at high risk of learning disability/psychiatric illness.

Most landlords don't go anywhere near HB tenants. It's well known they don't. They tend to be much worse a prospect than a corporate let or someone in a secure professional job. However there are some who do of course and there they will need to decide whether to lower rents or require the tenant to top up or just find private sector tenants not on HB which in some areas there are loads of so they don't court the HB people.

jesus christ benefit bashing/working class post/i want what you have/my neighbour gets more than me on benefits and I work FT/I have ten kids by ten different fathers...
These posts go round and round and get more crazy by the day and another excuse to be rude to each other and sound of.

She's only echoing what already happens. Most LL's won't take HB tenants. For starters many homeowners' insurances won't allow it and for another the council can come after a LL for HB for which a tenant was not entitled, even years later.

She's right, it won't lower rents. There will be more and more who are working FT, one or two, who can't buy as they can't save up the deposit and fees and the banks won't loan to them, anyway. And there's no family to help stump up the £30-£40K.

This will become more and more the case.

Those people will have to rent, more and more often forever as banks will still take their student loan repayments into account, c'mon, they will.

It's unpleasant but it's the truth.

Best can be hoped for is such people, more and more young professionals, will put pressure on the system of short-assured tenancy.

What a ridiculous OP.

really admire the posts of peachy and MrsDevere.

It is absolutely ridiculous to lump benefit cheats with the rest of the working class. I am from a solidly working class background, and I am proud of it. I have no desires or aspirations to become middle class, despite my job as a professional or my lifestyle. My values are firmly working class - which is work bloody hard, look after your family, don't go cap in hand to anyone and a distinct left wing distrust of those in 'power'.

Yes there are incidents of benefit cheating, however the cost of benefit fraud is far lower than tax evasion and tax avoidance which goes on. In fact the total welfare cost is minimal compared to the burgeoning pension costs. But of course we cannot make any adjustment to pension entitlement (as the coalition's core supporters probably fall into this bracket).

Yes there is a large swathe of people who are benefit dependent, often for generations. yes this is an awful situation, however some blame for that must be laid at the door of job prospects in these areas, some of which we caused by large industry closure and large scale degeneration in those areas. This is not a problem which can be solved overnight, and stigamtasation of these people is not going to achieve anything.

I for one am happy that I live in a country with decent welfare provision. Yes there are people who claim this fraudulently but I would imagine the vast majorty have a real, pressing need for welfare benefit. I am perfectly happy that my taxes go towards paying for it.

I agree that rents will not lower as the demand will increase. Young families can not buy - and many lost their home- so for every house that it is advertised for let will be more tenants queing to get it giving landlords more power to be choosy. It is scary for those who rent.

And then this will make it even harder for people to get out of the benefits, they will have to pay rent , move cost God knows how often, feeling insecure and no hope for buying even if both work full time.

Social housing would make it more possible for them to get out of benefits but ...well... most of it has been sold . Some people must be laughing. I was looking at some sites the other day, some 2 bed ex local on 15th floor for £250K

"a distinct left wing distrust of those in power"

I always thought that was more of a right wing thing

as you were

You have a mortgage n 2 cars...Thats very middle class ain't it. Sell one of the cars n buy everyone in the family a bike. Its cheaper healther n the whole family can join in!