To think that the landlord of the pub in Soho was within his rights to ask the couple to leave?

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www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-13103647

We've all seen the story. It seems to me that it's completely blown out of all proportion in exactly the same way that the couple with the B&B did not want gay couples staying under their roof.

If you were sat in a pub/restaurant and a heterosexual couple started getting steamed up, kissing passionately, hands all over each other, you'd be like 'Get a room' or 'take it outside'. I personally would move to another seat, I don't want to see it, straight or gay.

I think you should be allowed to ask people to move/leave for whatever reason if there is no prejudice and think this is another classic example of bleeding heart lefties using tactics to make the majority feel like the minority.

AIBU?

ryoko is, unfortunately, right. it is wrong but in the interests of your livelihood, you do have to listen to the majority.

But Ryoko, the whole point of equalities legislation is so that people are protected from common discrimination, and that bigoted folk cannot gang up on minorities and demand that they be chucked out etc.

And as for your coachload of Islamic people in the pub complaining......yes, those damn mulisms get everywhere....

lisie - tell that to the pub landlords whose patrons wnated to smoke.

He may well have the right to kick them out (if he is careful how he did it). They also have the right to protest/go to the media, etc.

I personally don't think it was blown out of proportion at all.

"You can't have everything in life, you can't have a society be tolerant to all religions and gays"

Why the fuck not?

What a stupid statement.

I am so on the fence here I agree with what blu is saying 100%. personally speaking, I find it appalling that in this day and age, in the richly populated society we live in, people can still be thrown out of the pub for kissing a member of the same sex. I dont know how people can find it offensive, I really dont. Ive asked couples to leave for getting a little too hot and heavy in a booth before now, but they were practically shagging on the table.

however, a licensee should and does have the right to refuse service without giving an explanation. its there and no getting away from it. and unfortunately, a licensee also relies on its patrons for an income. if 30 people left the pub because they found it offensive, thats a lot of money! and yes, it says more about the people who left, but people still have top make a living.

CCLL, I feel this is going around in circles a bit, and we are both repeating ourselves, but anyway...

To demonstrate discrimination, an individual (or bystanders) would have to demonstrate that they were treated differently from members of another group. There isn't a requirement for the perpetrator to state that their treatment is for that reason. Other forms of evidence can be used.

And that is what is happening in this case. The landlady did not mention the couple's sexual orientation, and nobody has complained to the police that she did, but the police are still investigating the incident.

blu, the pub trade was badly damaged by the passing of the smoking ban. and beer tax. my old boss had in his heyday 5 pubs, all incredibly popular, well run, thriving establishments. the smoking ban signified a sharp decline in profits, extra beer tax, recession... he lost them all.

but I still support it from a personal view... if I were still in the trade I would probably feel very differently though

milly, we shall have to agree to disagree. we are coming from different angles (no wonder people get confused about the legalities) I am not talking about this specific case. I am talking about the licensees rights in general. the police may well be investigating, but unless someone heard the landlord say "I am going to ask them to leave because they are two gay men kissing and it is offensive" there is no proof that is why they were evicted from the premises.

you are looking at it from a discrimination/legal POV, I am looking at it from a licensee's.

"ryoko is, unfortunately, right. it is wrong but in the interests of your livelihood, you do have to listen to the majority."

The majority of the John Snow's clientele are liberal media types, I kind of doubt a hardline Islamic group (as suggested by Ryoko) would be meeting in a Soho pub.

I have snogged my DH in there too

Blu why draw attention to the fact I mentioned islam while completely ignoring my comment about Americans from the deep south (other then nicking the word coach load from in front of it), being selective to try and paint me as islamaphobic is petty, pointless and completely missing the point.

Fact of the matter is if this was a Christian country as many claim it to be, being gay would be far more taboo then it is, the entire view that being gay is bad comes from religion anyway, Christianity, Islam, Judaism, we as a society can't have everything we want, we can not be tolerant of all faiths and of all lifestyles, as those two things are conflicting in many ways. to ignore complaints about a gay couple kissing is an insult to peoples religious views just as much as it is a violation of the rights of gays to be told not to do something due to complaints.

You are going to rub someone up the wrong way no matter what you do.

lol meg, i was talking from an overall POV, not this pub in particular.

"Fact of the matter is if this was a Christian country as many claim it to be, being gay would be far more taboo then it is"

No, not true. Many, many Christians are not anti-gay.

johnshelbyspong.com/store/living-in-sin-a-bishop-rethinks-human-sexuality/ is one source on the matter.

I agree with Ryoko that there are conflicts between different groups who are protected under the equality act. But it has been established in test cases that rights based on sexual orientation are given priority over rights based on religious belief. The case of the Christian couple who can no longer foster children because of their attitudes to homosexuality is a recent example.

Ryoko, are you 'real' or are you (as with OP) on a little day out from the Contractors site?

BecauseImWoeufIt

Because slapping a law in place is going to make no difference at all to hundreds of years worth of teachings/belief of a higher order.

And MillyR, that test case showed that NO ONE is immune from the ban on discrimination, not that gays had more rights than Christians?

Ryoko, please expand, not quite sure what you mean.

A nice bit of affection between two people starting out on a relationship is surely one of the LEAST offensive things to ever happen in a pub.

It was homophobia, pure and simple.

'Because slapping a law in place is going to make no difference at all to hundreds of years worth of teachings/belief of a higher order.'

Well that's us told then.
Wouldn't you feel more at home on the God Botherers thread?

I wish nobody would slobber all over each other in public.

I don't care if it is man & woman, man & man, woman & woman, man & goat, woman & gerbil.

I don't want to see the slobber and hear the slurping. If you really can't control yourself then you should probably book yourselves a room and shag till your bits fall off. Get it out of your system and then go back outside.

Hazel, there have been numerous cases where religious belief and homosexuality have come into conflict in terms of rights to protection from discrimination, and homosexuality has been given priority.

I don't think this is a case of gay people having more rights. It is more about the extent to which protection from discrimination on the grounds of religious belief can be used as a justification for commenting on the behaviour of others. Gay people are not asking for the right to tell children in care that it is wrong to be religious, or to be able to ask people wearing a cross to leave a pub, or to be allowed to refuse to conduct marriage ceremonies for people who are religious.

at Hecate!

I would agree if it was a full on snog (I am very prudish!) but apparently it was just a little kiss.

Unless it is a polite wave from across the bar, I don't want to see it.