Cyclists killed and seriously injured on roads.....spmeone is being unreasonable

[GabbyLoggon]

Big news in todays independent.(and elsewhere)

They say 230 cyclists are killed or seriously injured on our
roads every month.

Really? I would like to see those figures broken down to serious injury/death
The report says HGV drivers are often involved.

Cycling is becomming more popular here

Drivers often just don't notice (sometimes literally :( as various of us have attested) the "good" cyclists and just notice the those that "break" the rules.

There is some evidence (see this BBC article) that women yclists tend to be disproprtionately more accidents precisely because they are not assertive enough on the road - tend to obey the rules more (which actually at some traffic lights can be dangerous - see the example I gave earleir of the one near my old workplace - ironically on a cycle route) and hug the kerb too closely.

That's why more cycle paths are not necessarily the answer (even if they were kept clear of borken glass ) as that doesn't help drivers get used to "seeing" cyclists.

Ivykaty44
single file on narrow or busy roads and when riding round bends
I always find groups riding 2 or 3 abreast on country roads I use getting in the way and busy roads.
I tend to notice its the group riders that are more inconsiderate rude and not always your day to day cyclist.

I'd be surprised if it were different in Oz, but massively, lorries turning left and not seeing the cyclist to their left are involved.

For every silly cyclist, I see many more silly motorists.

I'd be surprised if it were different in Oz, but massively, lorries turning left and not seeing the cyclist to their left are involved.

For every silly cyclist, I see many more silly motorists.

I don't know why the happened, but now I can reply to upahill.

Don't know how you have the nerve to own up to speeding and having points, but be "aware" of other road users?

Special are you?

I used to cycle around 100 miles a week on road in London before having DS. I was a nerdy one, high vis gear, big light, obeyed rules of the road and if there was a nasty looking lorry I let it go first and hung back.

I have been sworn at, spat at and, while riding in a bus lane a car turned left across me without indicating and I hit it and came off in my only car accident. The driver was hysterical, apologized profusely and offered all her details without hesitation. I took no action as I wasn't too badly hurt and my bike was ok.

I'll admit that some cyclists drive me mad, I have shouted 'get some f*ing lights' at a fair few and my line for those jumping red light was always 'you are the reason why everybody hates us!'.

There will always be shit drivers and shit cyclists, there's not a lot you can do.

I advocate the Swiss system of insurance. You insure the bike and must display the plastic certificate on the bike at all times. It insures the rider for up to five million francs of public liability.

I also think skip lorries should have side guards. Their lack of guards is the reason why cyclists/pedestrians are more easily dragged under if they're clipped by one.

All the legislation in the world is not going to stop the laws of physics - if one ton plus of metal hits you, even at 30mph, you, you get hurt.

We all sail, in theory tankers give way to sailing dinghys, in practice they can't. The law that trumps this law is "don't crash".

Cyclists are often a menace to themselves and other road users.

Cyclists need to understand that and not jump red lights, shoot across junctions, undertake on bends etc etc.

Lorries account for a disproportionate number of cyclist deaths. There should be a special element of HGV training that addresses this issue and creates greater cyclist awareness. Sensors and mirrors can also be fitted to alert drivers to the presence of cyclists.

Like kungfupanda, I also support the idea that drivers are automatically assumed to be guilty in any accident concerning a cyclist unless the contrary can be proved. It would certainly save lives and injuries. Perhaps a Swedish-style insurance system, such as another poster mentioned, would provide a useful check on some cyclists' enthusiasm for sticking two fingers up at the Highway Code.

I am a cyclist and a motorist and would support both these measures btw.

Sorry, it's a Swiss not a Swedish system.

Like kungfupanda, I also support the idea that drivers are automatically assumed to be guilty in any accident concerning a cyclist unless the contrary can be proved.

Well, looking at obedience to rules of the road in my observation I would make the opposite assumption.

I definitely don't support a system where the motorist is assumed guilty in an accident involving a cyclist.

Just this weekend I was crossing the road - at a pedestrian crossing with the green light showing - DD in her buggy - only to be nearly mown down by yet another cyclist totally disregarding red lights and rights of way. He screamed abuse at us.

I could easily have killed half a dozen cyclists myself, if I wasn't such a careful driver. I've had dozens of cyclists fly out in front of me because they haven't stopped at junctions. I would estimate that less than half have sufficient lights on their bikes.

I bet that many of the cyclists killed met their end through foolish/aggressive cycling.

Agree that as with most things there is fault on both sides but since moving to a large town I have been horrified by some of things I have seen regarding cyclists. Going straight through red lights with no regard for traffic coming through, one cycling the wrong way through the train station one-way system facing the on-coming traffic (seen same person several times so not a one-off mistake) and the number of cyclists I see wearing dark clothing and with no lights or even reflectors on their bikes is just scary.

Obviously not all cyclists are this stupid - same as not all car/lorry drivers are reckless but some of them are just an accident waiting to happen....

This week so far I have experienced...

• woman and her child cycling on a busy road in the dark with no reflective clothing
• cyclist going into a traffic circle despite an oncoming car having rights of way
• cyclist trying to undertake me next to parked cars
• cyclist jumping red light at intersection.

That's just 1 1/2 days on the school run..... now imagine the motorist is always at fault. It would be a recipe for extreme stupidity to break out.

"I don't know about cyclists, but you know what, all these women walking around in the evening, drinking and wearing revealing clothes- well they ought to be more careful. It's only common sense. They're the ones who're going to get hurt, not the rapists. If all women wore burkhas and took a test on not looking provocative before they were allowed to leave the house, there would be far fewer rapes."

So yeah, how exactly is that different from the argument that you Jeremy-Clarkson-Lookalikes are making here?

There should be a special element of HGV training that addresses this issue and creates greater cyclist awareness. Sensors and mirrors can also be fitted to alert drivers to the presence of cyclists

there should be cyclist training on the basic physics of HGVs...eg a long heavy straight trailer can't dance like a ballerina or twist like a snake round a bend.

Nancy 66, of course if a cyclist contravenes the HC they should not have a case against a motorist who injures them as a result - eg no lights at night, riding the wrong way down a street etc. But, careless motorists would be forced to drive more carefully if they knew they would be held responsible for an accident with a law-abiding rider. In my experiences the greatest harm most drivers do is getting too close, causing cyclists to take avoiding action which can end up in them falling off or colliding with something. Close second is emerging from junctions without checking for cyclists and opening car doors without looking.

Whatmeworry - agree! Cycle training now does stress lorry awareness and hopefully cyclists understand never to get between the kerb and a lorry at a junction.

I wish more drivers respected those green boxes at junctions for cyclists.

And I hate it that when I am driving behind a cyclist, waiting for a safe opportunity to pass, I get beeped by angry drivers behind me, who think I should just steam past. Grrr.

But I had a rather unpleasant experience the other day at the hands of two cyclists. Stationery line of cars going up to the lights at a junction. I'd pulled over to the left, closer to the kerb than I normally would be, to let an ambulance through just before. Car was stationery (I repeat). Two cyclists came up behind, and began to overtake, but were forced onto the pavement because I was close (-ish) to the kerb. they didn't dismount. They drove at speed. And I have to say, had they been going more slowly, they could have driven past the car on the road ... .

Both of them hammered on the roof and doors of the car and yelled through the window: "Leave space for bikes." My dd was with me and both of us found it threatening. It was threatening: they were threatening knobbers on bikes. I strongly suspect that they'll graduate to cars at some point and be knobbers in metal vehicles. A nasty thought.

And I hate pavement cycling with a passion, yet I understand why some people do it, sometimes. Especially if they are children/have children.

I'm pretty easy-going. I think if people didn't have a complete mania for speed, and were more tolerant and respectful of others the roads would be a lot safer. Cyclists and pedestrians, with their little, soft bodies are vulnerable.

I sometimes think that there should be a courtesy and anger-management component to the driving test. If you're not capable of being reasonable, you don't get to go on the road.

I've only read the first 50 or so posts and am quite shocked at the prevailing attitude that everything that happens to cyclists is the cyclist's fault.

How horrible. It's bollocks anyway.

I grew up in a family of militant cyclists without a car (well we had one for a year once, it was shite and fell to bits).

I rode to and from school every day from the age of 11.

I have experienced absolutely shocking behaviour from motor vehicles, both when I was a child (knocked off by an old geezer on a mini roundabout, who 'didn't see me') and as an adult though I rarely cycle these days.

I now drive and have done so for 16 years. I also ride a motorcycle.

Do you know what. Yes, there are some ridiculously behaved cyclists about, and I hate trailing up a long hill behind one in a queue of cars as much as the next person.
But what I have learned is this.

Bicycles and cars are incompatible forms of transport.
That's right - this is a problem that will not be solved in any way until there are enough cycle paths and lanes EVERYWHERE so that the two forms of transport can work alongside one another and not be forced to compete for room where there isn't any, to put up with the consequences of one another's speed, and to risk death or injury being caused by each other simply due to the fact they move in different ways.

It's not safe
I don't like cyclists riding on roads at all

I think bicycles are brilliant, but I think they need their own space.

It's like trying to race a dog and a horse. It's stupid, it's asking for trouble.

Yy to real cycle lanes.

yyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.

I am a geeky cyclist, lights galore, helmet, hi vis etc.
That didn't stop someone turning right across my cycle lane as I went past the left hand side of a stationary bus. He probably didn't see me due to the bus, but he must have felt me bounce off his bonnet. He drove off though, having bounced me, and my bike (with child seat but luckily no baby on board) onto the pavement. I was bruised and shaken, but nobody stopped to help.
Another time I was taking DD to school on her seat at the back of my bike in icy conditions. A car driving too fast swerved round a parked car veered towards us. I mounted the pavement (cycling defensively) but the car also mounted the pavement, having driven across the entire road, and the car stopped just short of crushing me & DD against a wall. People stopped to help that time, but the driver shouted abuse at me and DD until passers by intervened. I remained civil and asked him to tone down his language in front of my then 5 year old, and he told me to F off. I did indeed F off to school, leaving the maniac driver shouting after me (with his car across the wrong side of the road and pavement - how he thought that was my fault as an oncoming cyclist I will never know)
There are good and bad cyclists and drivers, I just wish drivers had a cyclist awareness element of the driving test (a couple of hours on a bike on public roads would do it ), and that drivers would stop judging good cyclists by the worst examples of the kind.

I spelled "stationary" with an "e" not an "a". My car was not moving. It had not turned into a pen.

I agree that if everyone rode a bike, a motorcycle and a car you would get a better idea of each perspective. It might make things far safer. Unfortunately it's probably not a practical solution.

I think non integrated road systems is the way forward, truly I do - the more cycle lanes, the fewer points where bikes have to interact with large vehicles.

People might start to like each other, given enough space.

They're just totally incompatible.

Animula

My inner pedant has been around for a long time, but that was one of my first things I remember making a definite effort to get right!

Well, I moved here over a decade ago from The Netherlands and I went to work on my bicycle like I was used to at home. In one week I had so many near misses on my bike, more than I had in my whole life in The Netherlands.

It was the attitude of so many car drivers that really shocked me, cyclists are a nuisance rather than road user that has as much rights to be on the road as they have. Also, I think a lot of car drivers don't actually know what cyclists are entitled to do on a road, sometimes they do have right of way, you know!

Anyway, I stopped cycling quite quickly after that and have not gone back to it, it is just too dangerous here.

Of course, cyclists that drive dangerously are knobbers, just like car drivers that drive dangerously.