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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Cyclists killed and seriously injured on roads.....spmeone is being unreasonable

349 replies

GabbyLoggon · 15/04/2011 14:27

Big news in todays independent.(and elsewhere)

They say 230 cyclists are killed or seriously injured on our
roads every month.

Really? I would like to see those figures broken down to serious injury/death
The report says HGV drivers are often involved.

Cycling is becomming more popular here

OP posts:
TandB · 15/04/2011 14:45

nijinsky - I am not suggesting all such accidents are the fault of the cyclist - but there are regularly accidents involving a cyclist who should have stayed back and not tried to squeeze up the inside. I say this as someone who used to commute by bike and whose DP and several friends both commute by bike and cycle competitively. It's a deeply stupid thing to do.

MmeSurvivedLent · 15/04/2011 14:46

For instance.

We live close to France and cycling is incredibly popular both there and here in Switzerland. Some areas have cycle lanes, but not everywhere. The French have green lanes for cyclists in some areas of the countryside.

The Germany have lots of cycle paths, particularly in cities.

ivykaty44 · 15/04/2011 14:46
Original poster
GabbyLoggon · 15/04/2011 14:47

Kung F..well court records will decide who was at fault in serious cases.

Why take sides in this debate. Just look at the figures and the court cases.

Generalisations dont get us very far. It can become as illogical as a footie discussion between Man U and scouse supporters

Lets try and use our heads and not our prejuduces. Its not easy

OP posts:
ALovelyBunchOfCoconuts · 15/04/2011 14:47

I am neither a car driver nor a cyclist (after being ran over on my bike at the age of 9) but I definitely believe cyclists should take proficiency tests as a law. I was knocked off, injured and terrified to get back on my bike. I had had no tests as my primary school only did them in year 6, I was in year 4/5.

Just last week I was in the front passenger seat of a car that collided with a cyclist. I fully believe that that cyclist was in the wrong. Nobody was injured thankfully but can't help but think that if that man had had a cycling proficiency test he would not have been cycling on the wrong side of a roundabout and he would have got home safely that evening. He would have had more knowledge of the road he was travelling on and that incident could have been avoided.

TandB · 15/04/2011 14:49

Gabbylogon - I don't know why you want individual incidents but seeing as you seem to be interested, try this one.

My work roommate was standing on the steps of a police station in London when a woman wearing headphones and listening to an ipod whilst cycling changed lanes directly under the wheel of an HGV. She suffered horrific, stomach-churning injuries which I won't describe here and was dead by the time he reached her. The lorry driver was physically sick and hysterical.

Not his fault but he is going to have to live with it. As will the woman's family and friends.

It doesn't matter which group is most at fault - the only sensible thing to do is to take the most care that you possibly can as if you are a cyclist on the receiving end of an HGV, you are unlikely to be around to debate cause and blame on MN.

SardineQueen · 15/04/2011 14:49

This thread is mind-boggling.

230 cyclists killed of seriously injured on the roads every month and the overwhelming response appears to be that every one of them got what they deserved? Mind boggling.

Have none of you ever witnessed bad driving? Some cyclists have started wearing cameras on their helmets to show the sort of things that they encounter - the footage is absolutely shocking.

cantspel · 15/04/2011 14:49

We have a lot of cycle lanes where i live and yet they still insist on using the roads even when they have those silly little tents on wheels being bragged behind them.

ivykaty44 · 15/04/2011 14:49

Mme drivers of motor cars have far more respect for cyclists as more motorists are also cyclists, thus the difference in cycling in france than the uk.

Some drivers of motor cars are stupid and some cyclists are stupid, but take a stupid driver out of a car and put them on a bike and they may change there driving habits for the better

sausagesandmarmelade · 15/04/2011 14:50

I have seen some very bad cyclists....wending in-between traffic, dodging traffic lights etc..but then there are bad vehicle drivers as well.

The cyclist is more vulnerable though...and is always going to come off worst...whoever's fault it is.

It happens all too often on London's roads...and is often the subject of local papers. It's very sad.

There are more and more cyclists on the roads tho...and we've introduced the Boris bikes. Cycling is encouraged...but we need more visible cycle lanes..and cyclists should stick to these where possible.

bubblecoral · 15/04/2011 14:50

In The Netherlands and Belgie it is strict liability for those drivers who hit cyclists - in order to avoid liability, they have to prove they were not at fault

Makes me glad I live in England then. That is a ridiculously unfair rule, and if it was passed in this country, it would simply encourage reckless cyclists to be even more selfish than they already are. How can it possibly be fair?

faeriefruitcake · 15/04/2011 14:52

Undertaking when you are clearly indicating that you are turning left.

Designated cycle paths with no cars, keep all the idiots seperate.

MmeSurvivedLent · 15/04/2011 14:53

Yes, good point that motorists are more likely to be cyclists so take more care of other cyclists in France.

It is also becoming more rare to see cyclists without full protective gear (light reflective vest and helmet).

And they tend to stick to the rules of the road.

Original poster
GabbyLoggon · 15/04/2011 14:54

sausage? well I presume lorry drivers have mirror on both sides.

Mme...the point is there is a cycling growth (apparently) therefor the figures interest serious journos and the Minister of Transport. (whoever he is.) Death and serious injury deserves to be big news.

No report of a lorry driver tailgating; or a car driver speeding.

Me thinks mumsnetters are being rather coy about what they have seen and experienced.

We are all anoymous, you know

OP posts:
ivykaty44 · 15/04/2011 14:54

bubblecoral - please go and read the highway code, you will find that cyclists are legally allowed to ride side by side and that you are actually in the wrong.

SardineQueen · 15/04/2011 14:54

BBC report here

Car and van drivers are never at fault, it's always the fault of the cyclist.

I'm with you Gabby. It's 3000 families having to cope with the death of a loved one or an utterly life altering injury and the response is "they deserve it"...

diabolo · 15/04/2011 14:54

In my town there are designated cycle paths everywhere but some cyclists still insist on using the road.

Why?

grovel · 15/04/2011 14:55

I think it makes a difference if the cyclist is wearing Lycra.

Shoesytwoesy · 15/04/2011 14:56

doesn't suprise me Gabbby,my dh was nearly killed this week by a driver who didn't give way at a give junction(driver admitted it)

MmeSurvivedLent · 15/04/2011 14:57

Gabby
I posted that in response to the linking of the article about the pedestrian being killed by a cyclist but my point is the same.

Yes, debate the issue but don't get bogged down with individual stories as they stop you from seeing the big picture.

bebemooneedsabreak · 15/04/2011 14:57

There are a lot of people on bikes who do not take care of themselves and do not have good road safety;so many don't even wear helmets!
Same can really be said of motorists; they don't watch what they're doing and cut people off and make a nuisance of themselves on the roads.

DH who is an avid cyclist often comments on other cyclists who are not being safe, wearing high vis clothing at dusk/night. He also makes comments about drivers who have not given cyclists room.
He's been cut off a number of times by drivers, having near misses on commutes.

Thing to remember is that cyclists are road users too and you should give them as much room and respect as you'd give a car... not pass them just because and without looking down the road (As I've seen done SO many times which either ends up forcing oncoming vehicles or the cyclist off the road)

What would you do if you saw someone running or walking on the road??? You would take care, as we all should, at all times.

ivykaty44 · 15/04/2011 14:57
ivykaty44 · 15/04/2011 14:59

then you get well cyclist don't ear helmets, cyclists jump red lights, cyclists do this and eat chilli what do they expect.

Possibly if every car driver took one look at what they where doign as well then the roads would be safer for everyone

hogsback · 15/04/2011 14:59

bubblecoral: the legal duty of care of road users has pretty much the same effect in this country. Less vulnerable road users have a duty of care to more vulnerable road users, thus HGV drivers have a duty of care to car driver, car drivers to bikers, bikers to cyclists, cyclists to pedestrians and so on.

ALL road users owe a duty of car to other road users, and more so to more vulnerable road users.

The British reaction to terrible biker, cyclist and pedestrian KSI rates always seems to be victim-blaming at its worst. Hmm

Nesthaekchen · 15/04/2011 14:59

That number is so sad. I believe we can't say who is at fault most of the time but how sad so many people are losing their lives!

I believe everyone should be more careful. I like to ride a bike but I am also a driver (not in the UK at the moment though, me driving on the left side would be an accident waiting to happen as well).
As a driver you have to be aware that you have a huge blind spot. In the correct positioning a lorry can disappear in a car driver's blind spot after all. That's why we have to look over our shoulders. Unfortunately people tend to only go by mirrors once they have been driving a while.

But cyclists can be ridiculously dangerous too. The other day I was hit by one. I was a pedestrian and he drove into me. Thanks for that, he had a red light and I crossed the street.
Also, I bought a bike in the UK and was shocked that bikes here often don't have lights. Why is that? In Germany a bike is not allowed on the streets without them. Of course it's a thing of enforcement but honestly, why not make it a law and only allow selling bikes with lights? It's one of these things making life that tiny bit safer.
I do see way more cyclists in the UK wearing yellow vests though. I think that's great as well. People usually don't in Germany but it seems like such an obvious thing. It should be considered making them a law as well.
I know more law enforcement can sometimes be seen negatively but obviously right now the streets are not safe for cyclists. So something should be done quickly!