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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Ban Halal / Kosher meat?

102 replies

MaisyMooCow · 13/04/2011 21:05

Following on from a most interesting thread this week regarding the Burqa which touched slightly on the subject of Halal....

Recently on a visit to KFC I read a notice at the till saying that all the meat served at this branch met with Halal standards. This disturbed me somewhat as I don't personally agree with this method of slaughter. I visited the KFC website for further info and was relieved to find out that the meat is still actually slaughtered in accordance to EU standards but a representative is present to recite a verse of the Qu'ran to make it halal accredited.

However, at the end of the Burqa thread a poster mentioned that in the Netherlands they will soon be voting against the halal slaughter method currently practiced there. I am confused ....surely as part of the EU this shouldn't be allowed in the first place if they are being compliant with the EU rules on slaughter methods. Do members of the EU only follow the laws as and when it suits?

Does this mean that there are abattoirs in this country that could be practicing this slaughter method too illegally?

Surely, in order for animal welfare standards to be met and to satisfy the needs of the Muslim community all that is needed is what is currently practiced at the KFC suppliers, a verse of the Qu'ran recited?

OP posts:

fastedwina · 13/04/2011 23:50

I don't know what it experiences but i couldn't know for sure that a sheep being led through the street knows exactly what is in store for it. It probably met nijinsky's eyes and begged her to save it or maybe there was a bit of telepathy going on. Maybe it was eyeing up nijinsky's natty running gear hoping she would rescue it and they could run freely and unencumbered through the avenues and alleyways of Morocco - kicking their heels up and laughing in the faces at those who would oppress them, but probably not.

Original poster

MaisyMooCow · 13/04/2011 23:53

fastedwina you're bringing over arguments from the Burka thread, not on really. Nijinsky is entitled to comment on this thread without you having a pop at her for things said on the other.

OP posts:

dayday · 14/04/2011 00:12

From what I have read people who have actually seen halal slaughtering agree that it is the best for the animal. Ive been told that the nerves in the neck cut off the pain therefore, the animals goes calmly. Obviously the morroccan sheep was dragged away from its herd or mummy and daddy sheep, so it was upset but the actual slaughter is pain free and guaranteed. It doesnt lie there for hours bleeding to death, it takes seconds.

nijinsky · 14/04/2011 00:21

fastedwina
"I don't know what it experiences but i couldn't know for sure that a sheep being led through the street knows exactly what is in store for it. It probably met nijinsky's eyes and begged her to save it or maybe there was a bit of telepathy going on. Maybe it was eyeing up nijinsky's natty running gear hoping she would rescue it and they could run freely and unencumbered through the avenues and alleyways of Morocco - kicking their heels up and laughing in the faces at those who would oppress them, but probably not."

No, it was the fact it was struggling so much that one man couldn't drag it on his own, so two others had to help. Even then it took them a long time even to drag it about 50m. Also the screaming/screeching noise that it was making. I don't think any empathy would be required to have taken the same impression as me that it was terrified and wanted to escape.

nijinsky · 14/04/2011 00:26

Valhalla "*nijinksky, you "need" meat?

Need?

Really?"

Well, only in terms of being a bit nutritionally deficient and feeling it when I do my sports. I need something to help the muscles build and repair. But yes, I guess it is possible to take supplements, although I don't think I absorb them too well and/or to be marginally nutritionally deficient in a way that a lot of people are but never notice.

What I'm not saying very well is that I feel better a few days after I eat meat if I've not eaten it for several weeks and feel a bit weak.

Yes, I know I can get what I need from other sources but its actually quite hard to eat enough of them if your nutritional needs are quite high and you don't like them very much.

fastedwina · 14/04/2011 00:32

Ok - I knew I shouldn't have crossed threads but the other one is closed and 3 glasses on wine have made me exceedingly stupid brave.

nijinsky - i'm sure the sheep was frightened but to say it was because it knew it's fate is reaching a tad.

LDNmummy · 14/04/2011 01:53

"Nijinsky - i thought you spouted a load of shiiiite on the Burka thread but this is a gem. Of course it knew what was coming - you know that for sure."

My thought's exactly.

Morloth · 14/04/2011 07:03

I think (having slaughtered chickens and sheep myself) that if I had to choose a death I would prefer an expert hand slaughter to the machine stunning and slaughter version.

This is unlikely to happen though because of the sheer scale that it is done on.

I would actively choose halal/kosher meat over the other version if I knew that it was done by hand, by an expert, don't mind if they say a few prayers over it.

vj32 · 14/04/2011 07:14

Any method of mass production and slaughter is going to be cruel.

Is it more humane to be electrocuted or have a bolt in your head or have your throat cut? I don't know. I don't eat meat as I don't want to have to worry about this.

EricNorthmansMistress · 14/04/2011 07:46

vj32

Good point! Me neither. However my DH does eat halal meat so I have needed to find out a bit.

montysma1 · 14/04/2011 07:53

"I have seen happy sheep having their throats cut" type stories.........so anecdotal evidence would take precedence over scientific studies? There are loads ouut there.

If it was being done to you would you rather be unconscious when it was done?. Or positively chirpy as the knife slit you open, because hey, it doesn't hurt. There is a reason for anesthesia being invented you know, and that is that cutting into flesh is painful, whether its done quickly or slowly.

squeakytoy · 14/04/2011 08:32

Nijinksy, we do not NEED meat in our diet.

I am not a vegetarian, but I do know that I could get all the nutrition I needed from non-meat sources if I chose to.

blighter · 14/04/2011 09:38

activate - with regard to your comment about there being an anti jewish vibe on MN, where exactly, i haven't come across any inparticular

alexpolismum · 14/04/2011 10:15

I know nothing about this, so just want to ask - is halal and kosher basically the same thing? I know one term is the Muslim, the other the Jewish, but is the method the same?

DarthNiqabi · 14/04/2011 10:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DarthNiqabi · 14/04/2011 10:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RitaBix · 14/04/2011 10:27

How about fish? is that halal

And how much meat really is halal? Are all the slaughter house men in the UK muslims allahs name has to be mentioned during the slaughter. Can you imagine what a racist slaughterhouse man would say

scaryteacher · 14/04/2011 10:36

Well, one way around halal/kosher is to buy pork as that should be guaranteed not to be either.

I am all for better labelling too, as I would not buy halal/kosher meat. It is labelled very clearly in some Belgian supermarkets, so it can be avoided.

SusanneLinder · 14/04/2011 10:42

I buy halal lamb when making Indian food.Seems to be less fat and crap in it

EricNorthmansMistress · 14/04/2011 10:49

ritabix I doubt a non muslim would work in a halal slaughterhouse. Darth that's why they don't eat pork - in t'olden days it was hard to cook hot enough to be safe to eat. VOM.

RitaBix · 14/04/2011 10:52

EricNorthmansMistress
How many halal slaughter houses do we have in this country?
enough to keep up with demand?

RitaBix · 14/04/2011 10:54

All newzealnd lamb is halal. Is every slaughterhouse over there run by muslims?

bringmesunshine2009 · 14/04/2011 11:02

How can you object to halal and kosher slaughtering and still eat meat/dairy?!

All commercial animal slaughter/milking/egg collection is pretty awful. Unless you only ever eat free range, organic, small holding reared produce, surely a contribution to animal cruelty is inevitable.

If I was going to be killed and given a choice between electrocution and a bolt through my head or a quick slice through my jugular and spinal column, I don't think I could choose, neither would be my preferred option (from the animal's perspective).

EricNorthmansMistress · 14/04/2011 11:04

I have no idea to be honest. I know the halal butchers round here (south east) seem to get their meat from london so maybe not many.

nonickname3 · 14/04/2011 11:27

YANBU...sort of...There should be a choice of the type of meat you are given. What is really shocking is that KFC serves Halal meat but doesn't offer Free-range!! Sadly there's no place for morals in fast food and it's all about the money.

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