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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think death and resurrection are unsuitable subjects for a year 1 assembly?

101 replies

newfashionedmum · 12/04/2011 21:18

My daughter attends a community primary school, chosen specifically for being non-denominational as we don't think children should be segregated according to their families religious backgrounds. We are happy for DD to learn about religions as part of her understanding of cultures and anthropology, including visits to mosques, churches and hindu temples which are all arranged by her school.

However I'm unhappy that she and her friends had a class assembly today (which parents weren't told in advance about) about Easter, specifically the content and delivery of the assembly. I don't yet know the detail but she told me this evening she was upset because 'Jesus died' and she couldn't understand why Good Friday was good, when someone had died. She was then told Easter was a celebration, because 'he will come alive again and come back to earth'.

I think children this age are too young to make the distinction between a story and the truth, especially when told it by a teacher (who are usually held up by children at this age as the fount of all knowledge!) and without any context (for eg she doesn't know what sin is so can't even have it explained why Jesus was supposed to have died - not that I'd want them to go into 'saving us from eternal damnation' anyway). AIBU to be unhappy about this and has anyone got any constructive suggestions /guidelines about how to mark this particularly gruesome festival in a more sensitive way - or do some schools avoid it altogether? My DP says they should do something about its cultural context and it being an old pagan festival - hence the eggs - which is all 5 and 6 year olds are really interested in!

OP posts:
MillyR · 12/04/2011 23:14

The book is called 'Autumn' - it is a 'Teddy Horsley' book. They always have bears in them. They are designed to 'build bridges between the young child's day to day experiences of the world and major biblical themes and stories.'

vintageteacups · 12/04/2011 23:15

YANBU.
same here - I'm atheist and dcs at a c of e (through no choice in the area).

DC (yr 1) came home on Friday after 'thrilling Thursday' telling me the teacher who had taken them for history explained that mummies (egyptian) had their brains pulled out through their noses using a hook! I was shocked at the horrific way in which my little 6 yr old described to me the exact way in which the teacher had told them such detail. It sounded more like CSI than Yr 1 history.

Sorry -off topic but was cross.

And yes - Easter was pagan than then nicked by the christians!

Timeforanap · 12/04/2011 23:16

newfashionedmum there's a lovely,beautifully illustrated, abridged version of CS Lewis' "The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe" available, which I think most five year olds could access. It helps explain why one person (or Lion) would die instead of someone else (Edmund) - because he was more of a prize for the Witch.

newfashionedmum · 12/04/2011 23:19

thanks milly

OP posts:
HairyToedHobbit · 12/04/2011 23:27

DS is in reception at a C of E school so I realised they would obviously be teaching him the Christian version of Easter. However I was fairly surprised at the amount of detail given. I don't think a 4 year old (He's not 5 until the end of the school year) needs to know the method of execution used.

DS told me very excitedly that Jesus had nails put through his hands and feet and there was blood!!
I asked if the teacher had explained why Jesus died and got the reply
Because he ran out of blood!

So I think he coped fine but still ... Hmm

HairyToedHobbit · 12/04/2011 23:31

Sorry OP I forgot to say YADNBU.

spiderslegs · 12/04/2011 23:41

Vintage - You were really cross because the teacher told your children (who were six) an historical fact???

Blimey - what kind of sanitised world do you live in??

Timeforanap we have that version of The Lion The Witch & The Wardrobe, DS loves it, he understands the need for sacrifice & in some ways, the allegory as relates to life. As he does with Der Struwwelpeter & Grimm's Fairy Tales.

I really don't understand this impulse to shield them from 'grim' reality, children adore morality tales, the darker, the better.

MillyR · 12/04/2011 23:47

There is clearly a difference between a child being told some dark tale, and being told a dark tale where you are told at some point that the reason the dark tale happened is because of you and your behaviour.

So I don't see how Hansel and Gretel or Egyptian funerary rites are comparable to the crucifixion in terms of psychological impact, unless you are brought up to believe the crucifixion has nothing personally to do with you.

spiderslegs · 13/04/2011 00:01

Milly - utter piffle, the life cycle of an insect has nothing to do with morality. The Easter story does. Whether you believe (through whatever avenue) in God or not, the two are completely different things.

The Easter story & all those tales have an element of morality & personal response about them. A child relates & is thrilled to the dark fates involved.

The fact the leaves fall off the trees in Autumn & pop back in Spring is neither here nor there.

libEL · 13/04/2011 00:03

Apologies, havent read whole thread but from my experience YANBU.

My daughters first Easter at school and my mum had died in the January, so death was a slightly raw subject in our house. DD came home from school one day overly excited and saying 'mummy we need to go and see Nanny Sarah (at the grave) at Easter, dig her up and she will be alive again, just like Jesus'. Iwas awful realising she had heard this story in assembly but was too young to understand and watching her face crumble when I explained it was only Jesus and not every one was painful. I can have a little smile to myself now about it, especially the part where she said she had lost her spade so could she use a teaspoon, but this went on for weeks as she was convinced nanny was coming back

MillyR · 13/04/2011 00:08

Spiderslegs, the book is published by a mainstream Christian organisation; it isn't something I have randomly made up. It is also a very common belief in Christianity that morality can be explained using parables which have a natural theme. Commonly known ones are the lost sheep, the man sowing seed which falls on different types of land, the farmer's harvest and storehouse. All of these are attributed to Jesus.

So it is hardly a wild idea that spiritual life after death can be compared to or explained through natural processes which people are familiar with.

spiderslegs · 13/04/2011 00:32

Yes Milly that is true, the cycle of life in indisputable, but to compare the Easter story to a feeble allegory of leaves & trees is fallacious if not to say downright dishonest.

Children do not wither & die if told an uncomfortable or downright gory story, they actually enjoy it & take a lesson from any morality contained within.

I am a lapsed Catholic so had much fire & brimstone in my youth, I found it all quite thrilling & am considering taking my DCs to church so they may experience the same. I have felt scarred by none of it but enjoyed it all. I also had an epiphany in my teens when I realised none of it was true. That does not mean I never learned anything from it, merely I rejected it's tenets.

Again10 · 13/04/2011 01:50

YABU

mummytime · 13/04/2011 07:35

Onetoomanycornettos that has been happening for years in my High Street, its never frightened the kids. They are more interested in how the real flower seller is asked every year to carry the cross. But then my kids know the Easter story. (It is the same production now brought to Trafalgar square, you can even pay to go and see an even more in depth version every summer.)

But then if you go to India you will see lots of reconstructions of their religious stories.

exoticfruits · 13/04/2011 07:43

DC (yr 1) came home on Friday after 'thrilling Thursday' telling me the teacher who had taken them for history explained that mummies (egyptian) had their brains pulled out through their noses using a hook! I was shocked at the horrific way in which my little 6 yr old described to me the exact way in which the teacher had told them such detail.

DCs love it! Why do you think the 'Horrid History' series do so well? I have helped an an Egyptian day and they adore the gory bits. It doesn't traumatise them, they don't see it as anything to do with them and it isn't going to turn them into axe murderers! They take from the Easter story what they want and since they will get it every year until they leave school, they gradually add to their understanding.
We are a Christian country, it is part of the culture. You can argue that Easter is pagan but DCs should still understand Easter, even if they are not going to partake.
People don't seem to think their DC has any intelligence or want to debate these things with them- just shield them and not let them hear anything unpleasant-past generations seem to understand them much better which is why old fairy stories about witches pushing DCs in ovens have withstood the test of time!!

sausagesandmarmelade · 13/04/2011 07:47

Completely agree with Flowerpot...

Merle · 13/04/2011 08:03

I wonder if all those Christians who are happy for young children to be told about the details of cruxifiction would be the same if Amnesty International came in and lead an assembly on victims of torture.

It isn't that the 'Easter story' is about death, it is that it contains gruesome details. Some children enjoy this, some find it frightening. In any other context it would not be deemed age appropriate.

newfashionedmum · 13/04/2011 08:08

It is true that many children love gore - most of them from secure happy homes with noe experience of death or loss. But for those with traumatic events in their young lives and a real understanding that there is not necessarily a happy ever after these are not harmless 'stories' they can feel all too real.

OP posts:
sausagesandmarmelade · 13/04/2011 08:20

My niece and nephew (non christian parents) went to a church service at Eastertime last year. They wanted to go.

Apparently it was all really graphic...

Sometimes a little drama helps to bring home the enormity of what happened...

My sister and her husband were horrified by it all but the kids loved it!

The Easter message is about Christ being sacrificed, beaten and then hung on a cross...so that our sins could be washed away. His dying was the price for us. So it is GOOD...if you believe it.

It's definately the most important celebration in the Christian calendar....so why dumb down what happened?

You can accept it....or not. Completely up to you...but as it's Easter coming up I don't think the school was unreasonable for touching on the Easter theme.
If you have a problem with it...complain to the school.

meditrina · 13/04/2011 08:23

I've just looked back at OP: no details given to the children, just "Jesus died". The interpretation of this festival as "gruesome" was OP's comment.

That some children love then gruesome, and that some denominations have graphic descriptions in their main services (which children attend) wasn't the original point. You could make it as graphic as the Hollywood "Passion of Christ" version, or as anodyne as a reception class. Reference to death (an inherent part of the story) is not gruesome, nor would this be the only reference to death in material for children (Bambi's mother anyone?)

Easter is a major festival world-wide and I think it would be unfortunate for children to be left in ignorance of all or any aspects.

My DCs are currently at a non-affiliated school. They cover all major festivals from the major world religions. I would find it surprising, indeed lax, for the major celebration of the largest world religion to be omitted.

Flowerpotmummy · 13/04/2011 08:31

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

sausagesandmarmelade · 13/04/2011 08:38

Oh yes...I gave my Nephew the whole series of the Horrible Histories when they were free with a newspaper. He LOVED them.

I do think it was rather unfortunate that the OP wasn't able to answer her child's questions with a "christians believe...."

Flowerpotmummy · 13/04/2011 08:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

exoticfruits · 13/04/2011 08:45

Easter is a major festival world-wide and I think it would be unfortunate for children to be left in ignorance of all or any aspects.

Exactly. They take what they want and can understand from it. Also it happened a long time ago-when they think that a parent came from the 'olden days' they don't place it as frightening. I was quite happy with Guy Fawkes as a DC -as a child you don't actually imagine what it is like for a human to burn on a bonfire. As usual, people over think these things!
I bet the DC wasn't bothered and will have forgotten it-itis the parent who gets uptight-silly really when they got the same thing at 5 yrs and so did grandparents.

TrillianAstra · 13/04/2011 08:48

Year 1 is aged 5 or 6, right?

I think 6 year olds can definitely tell the difference between reality and a story.

The question is whether it was presented as "Christians believe" or "the Bible says" or as "ths is exactly what happened".

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