To ask genuinely, why people don't get married?

[Lookandlearn]

if they are in a committed, permanent relationship and have children? It's a genuine question and I am happy to be ignored if it's too mosey, but gives an airing to side issues from another thread on here.

msscarlett everything you said applies to me and I am married! Have our own bank accounts, joint mortgage, savings account etc. All decisions are joint - and tbh that aspect of marriage can be hard to get used to....I cannot just make snap decisions about my life any more because any decisions I make impact so much on others...my dh and my dc in the first instance.

A wedding (which as someone very wisely said is not the same as a marriage, which is fundementally a legal undertaking) is about families coming together and celebrating the creation of another family (and yes, I do consider a married couple a family, even if they have no children!).

In my wedding ceremony after the vows (my uncle married us which was so special) and his sermon he made us walk to the upper alter of the church to signify we were now a new family unit. It was lovely. A friend sang Ave Maria by Schubert during the signing of the register. sob. sniff.

Lots of the guests at our wedding sent us letters and cards afterwards to say it was the loveliest wedding they had ever been to Nothing to do with the money spent on it, I assure you! But there was a really great atmosphere, both at the church and at the reception afterwards....people were there to celebrate our marriage with us and have a bloody good knees up afterwards!!!!!!!!

(I danced til 2am and could barely walk the next morning...bloody wedding shoes! grrr)

Married, got my own bank account, got my own pension, got my husband's final salary pension, have even drawn up wills, despite being married, to ensure the right thing happens with our finances and children should anything happen to us. Am v happy being married, feel more secure, but didn't feel insecure before I was married. Got some very nice rings to show for it all too.

....and my sister and brother were married in the same church, and my dc were baptised there and I fully expect to make my final journey from there too!

I am finally at the age where W B Yeats point about tradition and ceremony is making sense.....if you arent religious then there is no need to compromise...you can get married pretty much where you want these days (as it should be) and it really doesnt have to cost much.

My wedding was a big family affair (got a bit stressful at points, but thats life!) There were over 100 at the meal and 150 at the reception. I made my own invites and orders of service, my dress was cheap, I had 2 bridesmaids whose dresses were homemade, flowers were cheap, made my own cake, cars were cheap (co op!), the only thing we spent money on was the reception and the photos really.

All I remember from my wedding day is lots of happy, smiling faces and plenty of booze fuelled declarations of love from my siblings

Buggybabe - I see your point! But, if we got married the expectation would be that we should have a wedding - and that's where those family/firiends politics would kick in (a cousin of mine got married without inviting any friends/family - all hell broke loose. Poor chap - people were so tied up in having a go at him for not inviting them that they completely forgot to say congratulations to him!). Frankly, I'd rather avoid getting involved in all of that unless absolutely necessary (i.e. if I get pregnant).

Don't get me wrong, I am not against marriage in the slightest - I am incredibly supportive of my friends/relatives' marriages. It's just not something that we want.

TCNY - here is a list of differences between a civil partnership ceremony & a civil wedding ceremony. The differences aren't necessarily that huge, depending on how much weight you put onto them. The religious thing is probably the biggest part of it as they point out in that link - even a civil wedding ceremony has shades of religion.

These folks don't think it's different words to describe the same thing, either. And note that in France you get a choice between a civil partnership (PACS) which is open to straight or gay couples, and a civil wedding - a church wedding is yet another option there as far as I know.

My friend is going through this atm. She is married but teh marital home has been sold and the assets are minimal. Both had good jobs although she earns about a third more than him and so now she is in a v difficult situation as she has had to rent a flat which is £££££ because of schools and he is in a lovely small place for much less. The CSA only consider income when doing calculations so he pays very little and he seems to hold all teh strings wrt to access and joint care in school hols etc. She has lost a huge amount of tax credits due to getting a payrise at xmas and tbh she is financially worse off than when she was a student! She is protected in that via the CSA he has to pay her something and with an unmarried case you would have to rely on common decency for this (which I think is adult way of looking at it personally)so she is at a small advantage but in no way is her life unchanged and indeed worsened by divorce. I don;t think I called anyone names anywhere I just think women should make sure their future security is sorted themselves and not abdicate the responsibility to a man.If you rely on the fact that he will cough up when the time comes and you leave it too long your kids will be older and you will have been out of the work place too long.

noddy I am sorry about your friend...thats an awful situation to be in.

However, I do not feel that I have "abdicated responsibility" by being married. I have a separate savings account and a pension. I do not expect anyone to "look after" me.

Coximinx - Exactly. As your link shows, there are no meaningful differences between Marriage and Civil Partnership at all.

TheCoalitionNeedsYou. I agree that there is no difference between marriage and civil partnership. Logically, there could not be as gay people have to have same rights as heterosexual people as regards marriage.

Beccaroo that is smart I think everyone should do this but surprisingly they don't. I really think people think their life won't change post divorce I know I did. Funnily this persons sister got separated(unmarried) and her ex has let her stay in the family home and he rents elsewhere. She has 4 kids and the youngest is 9 so she will be there a while. Her life has changed very littel bar him not being there she has a great job and financially she seems the same. There are no guarantees in life anywhere really. Just got back from lunch with y lovely dp I would hate to think people saw him as uncommitted and lacking for me as his partner and child's mum.He is amazing even after 20 years we still adore each other

I have never wanted to be married and have been with dp for over 25 years. I agree with everything Seeker and Usualsuspect were saying earlier up the thread. I would also add that when DP and I got togther it was him I wanted to be with not his family. The intervening years have only shown me that whilst they are not horrible I have only dp in common with them. My child is related to them but I am not and dont wish to be. I particularly dont wish to be expected to take any part in any future care they may demand as I will have enough to do for my own family. Some will think me very selfish , I just see it as self-preservation against a family who look to the women to do the caring.

TheCoalition - it doesn't - nothing does.

BaggedandTagged - None of the money that comes in to my bank account comes from my partner. I am in no way financially dependent upon him.

TCNY, the link doesnt show you that they're the same, though clearly they are very very similar. (and as they are so similar, why shouldn't straight couples be allowed a civil partnership and gay couples a wedding?)

The private nature of the civil partnership contrasts with the religious aspects that are still a part of the civil wedding. The way you get married is declarative: you repeat a specific form of words in front of the appropriate people. The way you get civilly partnered is essentially private, a legal agreement between the partners in question. They are not quite the same.

Perhaps I should say the quasi-religious aspects that are part of the civil wedding, as god isn't specifically mentioned. It clearly comes from a religious origin though - vowing before god.

idling Fair enough BUT that family made your dp how he is and you love him!!!

noddy I completely agree....my dsis for instance!! She is a SAHM like me. My BIL earns loads BUT my dsis is not on the mortgage and she has no pension either. When I advised her to get her name on the mortgage prior to their marriage she rounded on me and accused me of assuming they would split up!!!! sigh. What can you do?

Comixminx - As I said, no meaningful difference at all.

Really, is this what people complain about? Having to say some words? FFS.

The religous issue is an issue for members of those religions not the law.

MsScarlettInTheLibrary - So it actually has nothing to do with the institution of marriage at all.

No, I think you'll find that what the original person mentioning oppression was arguing about wasn't having to say some words, but the fact that gay couples can't get married and straight couples can't get civilly partnered, despite the very great similarities between them. Why shouldn't they be able to?

I am really perplexed by the assumtion of many on the thread advocating marriage (not all I know) that marriage makes a family.

I feel quite sad about it as I 100% consider myself dp and ds a family unit, and we are not married.

I do wonder if we should get married for the sake of ds. After all, if that it is the opinion of a few, that un-married parents = not a family, I wonder if he will have this echoed to him through others. That bothers me immensly.

TheCoalition - not today, but of course I was talking about the traditions and history behind it. It is easy to see how someone might just get married and not realise the extent to which their finances are affected by this decision, positively or negatively, whereas those who choose to be unmarried often protect themselves in more individually tailored ways.

1717 I don't think that's true, that unmarried parents are not perceived to be a family (by some), and I don't think it will reflect on children!
Oh dear! :(
No, I'm sure by the time DS grows up it won't be the case, even if it may be now.

1717 don't ever think that about your ds! I have one ds and we are very much a family in every way. My mum was married to my dad but he was never there and treated her and us like dirt As soon as they divorced he left teh country and moved to where the law couldn't touch him so she had to work her arse off to look after us So you see my parents were married for all my childhood but we weren't anything like the family I am in now

I really hope that is true, because we don't think marriage would make a difference to our relationship, but I would hate for ds to encouter any prejudice because we aren't married.

This is something my mum says all the time. "If you don't want to get married for yourslves, think of your son".

Very sad indeed....

Anyhow, having killed the thread most probably I am off to see my Boyfriend ;) and take our little monster to the park!

Civil partnerships are not private at all. Civil partners are still making a public and legal statement that they wish to be viewed as a couple- just like the married. So what if a few (irrelevant) details are different?
If they split, they'll still have to be subject to same splitting of assets as the married. Still be treated in same way as married if stick together as regards widow's pension etc.

I also do not see what the big deal is in getting married -apart from financial/legal reasons in not wishing to divide assets in event of split or go through the courts, fair enough- if people are living in long-term relationships with children. Why the abhorrence to marriage? Most long-term couples live their day-to-day lives in much the same way-married or not.
It makes me raise my eyes to the heavens (if there are any heavens, I'm an atheist) when someone who is reliant on their partner for money as a sahp says marriage is oppressive. Are they seriously saying that being a dependent cohabitee is NOT?!
What's the real difference? Men and women tend to behave much in the same way married or not. If a cohabiting couple share the chores, they'll do so if married. If they don't, when the ring is on the finger the one who did the chores will continue to do so.
At least with marriage, if a spouse leaves for another woman there is at least a ready made framework to deal with the fallout-it may not always work well, but it's there all the same.

comixminx - So we are oppressing people by giving them the exact same thing with different names ?