To ask whether or not people here believe in homeopathy?

[DaisyLovesMetronidazole]

I don't at all.

However, I'm not out for a bunfight!

Just curious, as was surprised by the response of a certain group to this question today.

not liars onagar but believers that their craft/art/science can & does work - at least for the most part, I don't doubt there are a few conmen amongst them, as in all fields

I've a long time friend who retrained as a homeopath after it cure her DDs skin problems, she is very well respected in her field, & she is certainly not a liar, nor is she delusional, though no doubt her enthusiasm & strong belief in her trade is infectious for her patients, but it works for those that don't buy into that too ....myself included :)

Thank you brainsurgeon :)

I think I will stick with dummies.

Natural selection has a way of seeing to these things I find, so I don't mind if stupid people wish to pretend.

rockinhippy your post is exactly the sort of thing I would expect from someone who believes in homeopathy.

I have yet to hear anyone sensible claim that it works.

Which ones work? Does water only have a memory for some substances then?

rockinhippy, I think you misread my post. Some of the homeopathy supporters were saying that homeopathy works by the placebo effect. I am just pointing out that if that is the case then the homeopathy explanation is NOT true. They claim it has a real effect not just placebo.

Can't have it both ways. Pick one.

The ones that treat minor, self-limiting ailments work.

Winter - is it the Combudoron Ointment? I thought urtica urens and arnica montana were the homeopathic "ingredients", and the lanolin, beewax etc base which is soothing.

I am with Brain Surgeon on this - a handful of the remedies may make a difference, but at the moment we probably don't know why. However they're comparatively inexpensive so I think if they help people feel they have some control over their health for minor self-limiting problems, then it does no harm, rather like taking extra vitamins and so on.

How can some make a difference but not all, if they are all just water BoffinMum?

They are not all just water Rita :) anyway not the proper ones

Interesting BoffinMum. Do you think they make a difference outsite that of the placebo effect? I.e that they work better than a placebo?

Why do you think some remedies work and some don't? Do you have a theory as to the mechanism behind their efficacy when there's no discernable ingredient left in the preparation, and when in the case of sugar pills even the water which had the "memory" of the ingredient's presence has been evaporated off?

Urtica and Arnica are herbs and it looks like they are used in the Combudoron ointment in a herbal dosage rather than a homeopathic one. Looks like a 1 in 2 tincture perhaps with 9.5ml of Urtica and 0.5ml of Arnica going in. Doesn't sound homeopathic to me although they have said they have included it on the homeopathic principle of 'like cures like'.

I'm told that there is actual arnica montana extract in that cream, a friend who works for the EU comm tells me that they aren't allowed to market it as effective on anything unless it actually contains the substance, I know they do homeopathic preps but they have to describe theme differently? The ingredients list I've seen states an actual amount of arnica in the cream.

They are supposed to be a very dilute form, so there's going to be a very little bit of supposedly active ingredient in there still. Presumably some supposedly active ingredients may actually have an effect whereas others may not. If we tested every single remedy rigorously we might be able to establish this, but at the moment we simply don't have enough information to know for sure.

they are just water, BrainSurgeon, thats the actual premise. That the less chance there is of there being any actual substance the more powerful it is. Don't forget the special shaking though, thats important.

My position is that I think some of the remedies are probably a load of old bollocks, whereas in the case of others they have accidentally hit on something that works, but they don't know why or how exactly.

Thats fine Morloth thats exactly the sort of response I would expect from someone as obviously closed mined as yourself - life may teach you otherwise in time, perhaps you might remember this conversation when it does

& in answer to your question ongar - that would depend on your interpretation of placebo effect as alternative therapies, homeopathy included work on the "WHOLE" person, then by that thinking, the placebo can be seen as the element that works on the mind - though I can see that would be a different understanding of where you are coming from

think we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one - I've things to get on with - enjoy the rest of your debate :)

Nothing here has changed my mind - just saddened me a little bit at how sometimes such closed minds can hide themselves behind a facade of so called intelligence [shrugs]

same auld shite.

No BoffinMum. Homeopathic preparations are so dilute that the chance of a single molecule of the ingredient being present is basically nil.

The water memory thing sounds particularly daft until you consider that there may be something going on at molecular level that might not be properly understood. However I stand by what I say about a dilution always being a dilution, however weak.

Suzi, this is the same with allergy prick tests, that are supposed to be incredibly minute in terms of allergen quantity, yet it is possible to have a pretty dramatic reaction to them under supervised clinical conditions.

BoffinMum - why would some be bollocks and others not? The remedies are all just water, presumably if some are bollocks, they should all be?

1:30 is not that weak rally, is it?

This water has a memory of digitalis but not of piss? Or of skin cells of all the people its gone through, or all the rocks and dead sheep and fishes its been a part of?

If its a dilution of your active substance that is going to cure an ailment, then its a dilution of everything else that has ever been in contact with that water.

Unless your magical woo water has a highly selective memory?