To ask whether or not people here believe in homeopathy?

[DaisyLovesMetronidazole]

I don't at all.

However, I'm not out for a bunfight!

Just curious, as was surprised by the response of a certain group to this question today.

"A 30X dilution means that the original substance has been diluted 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times. Assuming that a cubic centimeter of water contains 15 drops, this number is greater than the number of drops of water that would fill a container more than 50 times the size of the Earth. Imagine placing a drop of red dye into such a container so that it disperses evenly. Homeopathy's "law of infinitesimals" is the equivalent of saying that any drop of water subsequently removed from that container will possess an essence of redness. Robert L. Park, Ph.D., a prominent physicist who is executive director of The American Physical Society, has noted that since the least amount of a substance in a solution is one molecule, a 30C solution would have to have at least one molecule of the original substance dissolved in a minimum of 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 molecules of water. This would require a container more than 30,000,000,000 times the size of the Earth."

From: www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/homeo.html

I am saying a dilution is exactly that. Some of the stuff is going to be in there somewhere. Whether it works or not is another question, and I have already said that a good deal of it is likely to be bollocks.

I think you're mistaking how dilute they are..

BoffinMum - are they not diluted so much that it is almost impossible for a molecule of the "ingredient" to be present in the amount of water? The molecule is only there as a memory, not in any physical way.

and its not one in 30, its a 30c dilution, which is a billion points different. I kinda hope you're not an actual Boffin, and I really hope BrainSurgeon isn't.

BOF - Yes, Weleda is a full-on culty Steiner company. Though that's anthroposophic, not anthropomorphic, for what that's worth.

Winter I was raised on planet Steiner, and as far as I can recall Weleda stuff - the pills and ointments at least - are defimintely homeopathic. The bath milks and moisturisers etc are herbal, though.

rockinhippy Reiki is weird. My DP is a staunch empiricist with zero tolerance for woo. But when he had his breakdown and went to a treatment centre for a few weeks, there were various alternative treatments on offer including reiki. He was a bit but thought he might as well have a go as it was free. One of his symptoms was agonising stomach cramps, and he said when the reiki woman got to that bit he felt his whole gut uncoil, and burst into tears.

He's still anti woo, but will often have a reiki treatment if work is stressy. I suppose he's just removed reiki from the list of 'things that are woo'.

How come Trading Standards aren't in there then??? When you put it like that it does seem mental.

the pills and some of the ointments are homepathic, some of the creams are herbal.

I am not a lab based boffin, luckily. I do people instead. In terms of science, I have O Levels only.

*definitely, not 'defimintely'

Manatee the ointment doesn't look homeopathic to me - those are herbal preparations (Arnica and Urtica in the Comboduron).

Until you actually investigate the theory of homeopathy you don't realise how mental it is though!

A dilute version of a substance that causes similar symptoms to the illness you have in order to cure that illness = a bit mental

A molecular memory of that substance diluted in more water than there is in the whole world = very, very mental

Winter The Weleda Combudoron cream my sunburnt friends were fighting rabidly over was definitely the homeopathic sort though.

Oh - just looked at its ingredients. Seems I was wrong about it being homeopathic. Anyhoo, I can recommend it for sunburn

OTheHugeManatee - the lanolin in that burns ointment alone will be very soothing, so not surprising that it works even with herbs and/or magic.

Then they were just loving the lanolin, or whatever is the base, more fool them.

Reiki works because if you are told to lie down and relax and that someone is going to make you feel better, you feel better. The fact that you are told that you might cry etc. gives you permission to do so. This can be theraputic.

What about 'proving' a remedy - taking too much of a homeopathic remedy when you don't have the illness it is supposed to help is supposed to create the symptoms it should cure. Again, if there is nothing in it, how does it do that?

No and I never will until Nelsons put their (considerable) money where their mouth is and do a double blind randomised trial and prove that their woo works (which they never will because it doesn't).

Basically they are selling water. The dilution works out at about 1 molecule in the English channel.

I do believe in placebo effect though.

Chamomilla is herbal though, not homeopathic.

Homeopathy and herbal/natural remedies aren't the same thing.

If you are worried about honesty then you seriously need to know about how much effect honesty has on the impact of placebo. It is obviously completely central to the argument.

Bagged It would be very difficult to do the trial as very often the same symptoms in different people need different remedies, and similarly one remedy can be used for a wide variety of symptoms, depending on the overall picture.

Herbwoman - it doesn't. You can take as much of a homeopathic treatment as you like and it will do nothing, except via the placebo effect. Taking an entire packet of homeopathic pills will not create the symptoms it's supposed to be curing.

I'm going to have some homeopathic chocolate, eg a cup of tea that may or may not have had a kit kat finger dunked into it at some point in the last decade.

*Flower, prob the sugar, which is a good pain reliever in children.