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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think grandparents should not have legal rights to see their grandchildren

101 replies

hardhatdonned · 31/03/2011 00:10

Instead it should fall on the parents to include the extended family in the childs life and shouldn't fall on the resident parent to provide access to every member of both families and their dogs?

(Just reading the news before I go to bed and one article in the Daily Toiletpaper riled me a lot!)

OP posts:
exoticfruits · 01/04/2011 07:59

I think that it is merely to safeguard the rights of the thousands of lovely people who are perfectly normal but, throught no fault of their own, are cut off from their grandchildren.
It has always struck me that as a mother, when mine were little, I had way too much power. If you don't see grandparents, don't talk about them when they are not there, don't let the DC speak on the phone, don't hand over presents they can't have a relationship.
If they are toxic there is nothing wrong with this-but more usually they are not and it simply isn't fair.

Sweetpea215 · 01/04/2011 08:04

I think Grandparents are really important...and GOOD ones deserve to have access rights (when parents split up).

Why should the child and grandparents relationship suffer because a relationship ends?

TheAtterySquash · 01/04/2011 08:20

I see the love and joy that the relationship between my children and both sets of grandparents brings to all of them. That's been hugely important to the children since my husband left last year.

Sustaining a relationship with my in laws has been hard - I am fond of them but feel they have let their son off the hook very lightly, and now my time with my children is limited, I don't particularly want to spend it all traipsing round the country visiting parents (mine or his). But I am trying as I know this was something that his mother in particular was hugely concerned about.

I do think grandparents should, assuming there are no abuse issues, have a right to maintain a relationship with grandchildren post divorce but that has to be within a framework of them making an effort and recognising that it isn't the resident parents' responsibility to do all the running - I have started saying to my former in laws that we would of course Iove to see them so they can visit us on these dates (rather than me dragging the children half way across the country after a long week at school and work).

JingleMum · 01/04/2011 08:35

exoticfruits - i agree with you when you say that

"I think that it is merely to safeguard the rights of the thousands of lovely people who are perfectly normal but, throught no fault of their own, are cut off from their grandchildren"

of course if the parents split up then the maternal/paternal grandparents should be entitled to still have contact with their grandchild, providing that they were part of the grandchild's life before. it's heartbreaking if they are suddenly cast aside and cut off from their grandchild's life. i do think though, it should be on the father/mother's own time that they arrange for their parents to see their child.

i don't agree with

"It has always struck me that as a mother, when mine were little, I had way too much power"

if you felt that way then fair enough, but i think you had the right to that power, you grew that child, carried that child and gave life to that child. you had every right to that power. of course that doesn't mean that dad's shouldn't have that power either, i just feel that in most cases the mother is the main carer and knows what's best for her child, usually more so than the father, so if the worst happens and parent's separate, mother's should still be able to retain the "power" as you call it.

diddl · 01/04/2011 12:12

But aren´t these rights for GPs only in cases where they were already seeing GC & then it stops due to couples splitting?

MizzyDizzy · 01/04/2011 12:33

YANBU

I've supervised my own parents having contact with my DC's for over 14 years to avoid them abusing my DC's as they did me.

The thought that they could have automatic 'rights' to lone/unsupervised access just doesn't bear thinking about.

As it is this article was rather misleading and GP's would still have to go to court for access it just makes it easier for them to apply for access.

Link to relevant blog thanks to MmeLindt.

pinktape.co.uk/2011/03/family-justice-review-interim-report/#more-2000

Quote from link....

"The requirement for grandparents to seek leave of the court before making an application for contact should remain. This was misreported by The Telegraph this morning, who reported (and it still says this at 6.30pm this evening) that:

?Grandparents will get legal powers to guarantee them access to their grandchildren after divorce battles under new proposals.?

and that there is a proposal to create

?legal rights for children to decide which parent they want to live with and when they should see other family members.?

There simply isn?t. It?s just bad legal reporting from the Home Affairs Correspondent."

This point was also mentioned via the TV news...can't remember which channel I was watching at the time though! Blush

darlingdds2 · 01/04/2011 13:13

Why do people assume that grandparents are nice and caring just because they are grandparents? My in-laws treat my children very differently and favour one over the other. I would not want them to see my children without me there to moderate their behaviour. Also, what if the children don't want to see them? With regard to the earlier reply, I see nothing wrong in not wanting a 23 stone junk-food eating smoker to see your children. Grandparents are very likely to take sides in a split between parents and to make this very obvious to the grandchildren.
Just because grandparents are old, doesn't make them wonderful people!

Whitewithnosugarplease · 01/04/2011 17:12

I would like to balance this up a bit
A very good friend of mine is a single FATHER. He has brought up his DD for the last two years since her mother left. He is a brilliant dad and they have a very close bond.Her mother agreed that their DD would be far better living with her dad for various reasons but her own parents don't/won't agree.
The Childs mother takes her to visit her parents for a whole day every other weekend but they will still text my friend on his weekends and ask him to bring her over. He gets fed up with this as these are the only two days a fortnight He gets quality time with his DD and also to take her to visit his own family.
They plan Christmas and Easter six months in advance and tell him when they would like her. They have a houseful of expensive toys and a wardrobe full of clothes which they change her into when she visits without her dad! They, or the Childs mother don't contribute a penny to the Childs upbringing, any presents the GP's buy for Xmas/ birthdays have to stay at their house she is never allowed to bring them home.
Although my friends DD enjoys the toys at her GP's house, she doesn't have a bond with particularly her GM as she is constantly putting her under pressure asking her when she is coming to stay, asking her to go on holiday abroad with them and worst of all telling her that she really should be living with her mummy!! the poor little girl gets really uptight about this, has nightmares etc as her daddy is her safety zone.
The latest is granny wants her GD to live with them every other week so that her mother can come an go as she pleases!
I'm sorry this is so long winded I'm just trying to make the point that if they were given rights on top of this it would be so wrong.
As I have said before there is no way good, caring grandparents should be denied access to their grandchildren but what about the ones who just want to manipulate and take over.

Sleepingonthebus · 01/04/2011 18:37

So, the poster on here who only got to see her child 2 weekend days out of 8, how much child support were the grandparents paying?

None whatsover. Mind you, neither does my ex.

if some GP's are doing that, I would assume there are strong reasons why

To this day, I have no idea why. I never stopped the GP's from seeing my children. I used to be very close to my MIL, until she lied about me in court during the custody hearing. After that I wanted nothing to do with her personally, but I'd never not let her see the kids. There was no reason for her to go down the court route.

exoticfruits · 01/04/2011 19:11

if you felt that way then fair enough, but i think you had the right to that power, you grew that child, carried that child and gave life to that child. you had every right to that power.

That child isn't a possession! The child is the one with rights and a relationship with grandparents is one of those rights (unless they are toxic in some way). You may not get with your parents but your DC may get on wondefully well with them.
I know one sad case, friends of my mother, they are a lovely couple but their DIL doesn't want to know. They have no contact, presents etc are returned and they have topass their granddaughter in the street and she doesn't know who they are! All they can do is keep the cards, presents and keep a diary so that when the granddaughter eventually seeks them out she can see that they cared. So sad on both sides-and unnecessary.

pranma · 01/04/2011 19:18

YABVU grandparents usually love their dgc so much-how could anyone deny them access to the children they love so dearly.

JingleMum · 01/04/2011 20:19

exoticfruits i'm looking at it as in the child is a baby (my DD is still only a baby) so she wouldn't be able to make those decisions, i make them for her. just for the record i would never be one of those awful women that stopped her child having a relationship with his/her grandparents (unless of course there was a genuine reason) but when it comes to power/rights etc.. i do think in the majority of cases that the mother is top dog. just a shame so many abuse that power and stop their child having anything to do with the grandparents, when there's no valid reason for doing so.

exoticfruits · 01/04/2011 22:08

You are very lucky and priviledged to have a child to bring up-they are not a possession. Obviously you look after their best interests and protect them. I am not talking about abusive grandparents-just the many, many perfectly normal ones who find themselves at the complete mercy of the DCs parents. It is good that they now have rights and can't be cut odd because the mother or father happens to want to move on without them.

NessyBay · 01/04/2011 22:16

Over my dead body will my horrid PIL ever see my DCs - divorced, dead or alive.

Blood does not earn them the right.

exoticfruits · 01/04/2011 22:20

This is where it is so wrong NessyBay-using your poor DCs as pawns-they deserve better.

exoticfruits · 01/04/2011 22:23

The good thing is that someone will no longer be able to just say 'over my dead body' they will have to prove their reasoniong-long overdue.

JingleMum · 01/04/2011 22:24

exoticfruits each situation is different though, surely? i agree that caring, loving grandparents should not be cut out. but say my DP and i split and we agreed that he would have DD 2 days per week, i would expect him to visit his parents with DD for a few hours on the days that he had custody of DD, it would not be my responsibility to keep the contact going, am i right in thinking that they would then be able to apply through court for some form of custody just because DP and i had split? that's the impression i got from what people are saying? if that's the case then it's bollocks.

now say (god forbid) my DP passed away, then it would be fair enough for my inlaws to apply for some form of visitation rights if i decided to be a bitch and cut contact (i wouldn't and i doubt most women would) so this new law is a good thing in that respect.

exoticfruits · 01/04/2011 22:24

If you have got valid reasons I am sure that the courts will listen.

JingleMum · 01/04/2011 22:26

exoticfruits nessybay may have a perfectly reasonable explination for why she feels that way and if she does then she has every right to say "over my dead body". surely not many people are that horrid to turn around and say "i just don't want my DC's having any contact with my inlaws because i don't like them"?

Tortington · 01/04/2011 22:28

it should be up to the parent with which the children reside. if the other non residential parent wants to allow grandparents into their life when they are having visitation then thats all well and good.

zubin · 01/04/2011 22:36

Does this give rights to grandparents when parents are together but don't have contact with one set of grandparents?

AngelHMum · 01/04/2011 22:40

This is obviously a very emotive issue, I posted earlier on in the thread about how I have kept my ex's family in touch with their son and always will.
I would like to say that not all contact has to be actual physical visits.

My ex's family live at the opposite end of the country to us and although they see their grandson / nephew a few times a year when he is at his dad's, a lot of the contact I maintain is via email or post.
My son brings home pictures or work he's done at school and we put them in the post with a note. We email photos over and send an overview when he gets his school report. We remember birthdays and make sure invites are sent for school plays or sports day in case they are down this way at the time. Sometimes they come, sometimes they don't, but the gesture is made all the same.

There are lots of ways to keep in touch and even if there is a toxic or uncomfortable issue between ex in-laws and parents it is so easy to use another route in this day and age.

I know we are very lucky because I have never had any reason to doubt the integrity or behaviour of my ex in-laws, that is clearly not the case for all parents and it must be very difficult in that situation.
However in my case I feel my son's life is richer and healthier for keeping in touch with all his family from both sides.
I did not always see eye to eye with them when they were my in-laws and we did have our moments at times. However they deserve the contact with their grandson (actually their only grandson) and he deserves the chance to build a relationship with them and know them.
I like to think it's his best interests I have at heart here and I hope he continues his relationship with them into adulthood.

xstitch · 01/04/2011 22:51

Even if you don't stop the paternal GPs seeing their GC jus don't want them to have 100% custody especially as they are emotionally abusive you still get shafted by the courts. a law like this would only make it worse.

NessyBay · 02/04/2011 07:23

Oh, I and DH have very good reasons. But too long for Mnet.

They have a wonderful relationship with other GPs.

NessyBay · 02/04/2011 07:26

Of course totally agree jinglemum - caring, loving grandparents should not be cut out