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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think grandparents should not have legal rights to see their grandchildren

101 replies

hardhatdonned · 31/03/2011 00:10

Instead it should fall on the parents to include the extended family in the childs life and shouldn't fall on the resident parent to provide access to every member of both families and their dogs?

(Just reading the news before I go to bed and one article in the Daily Toiletpaper riled me a lot!)

OP posts:
LDNmummy · 31/03/2011 17:05

And GP's do not have that much power in these situations to begin with, they have to give adequate reasons for excercising these rights. They are not just immediately given some wierd form of custody, they have to really fight for it. So if some GP's are doing that, I would assume there are strong reasons why.

Original poster
hardhatdonned · 31/03/2011 19:08

Interesting views! Obviously one cap fits all will not fit all familys, even the generic proposals don't seem to fit. It's madness.

I totally agree with whomever it was who said everyone wants rights but no responsibility. Too bloody right!!

OP posts:
Maryz · 31/03/2011 19:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NotYourPrincess · 31/03/2011 19:33

Ooh this is interesting!

Since DD was born last year, my mum has been amazing - lots of support, did a few nights for me during newborn stage, babysits a few times a month so DH and I get time alone, DD and I see her at least once a week and she takes DD to the swings etc so I can have a nap.

DH's mum, however, rarely makes contact, offers hardly any help and has made no effort whatsoever to get to know me. I would never think of restricting her access if DH and I split up, but I don't imagine that she'd make the effort to see her more than a couple of times a year anyway.

People are so varied, you can't have a one-size-fits-all approach to access and custody.

*my pet hate at the moment is people feeling entitled to things for which they've done no work.... seems to be a bit of an epidemic!

mollymole · 31/03/2011 19:35

according to a radio news programme today - legal right for grandparents to access granchildren is not what was actually approved and some one who leaked it has got it wrong - there is a recommendation etc but no new law

meaniemo · 31/03/2011 19:36

My ex and I were discussing this today. His parents have had no contact with our children in 10 years. They are both alcoholics, racist and violent. We were very happy to cease all contact and they haven't tried to see the children in all this time.

4 years ago he and I divorced and we feel vunerable that because we are now divorced his parents could get legal rights of access to the children even though neither of us want it.

:(

Maryz · 31/03/2011 19:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NotYourPrincess · 31/03/2011 19:43

:( for you meaniemo, that must be very scary

BabyDubsEverywhere · 31/03/2011 19:48

I cant see the point in grandparents at all really. I didnt have much of a relationship with any of mine, my choice mainly, they were boring and added no real value to my life, we were trooped in to a smoke filled room to sit and watch bullseye on a sunday at my nans, by the time i hit i refused to go. They died shortly after. I actually felt relieved when my other nan finally died. My poor mom had been suffering for years looking after her and although my nan was nice and sweet she was also a big burden.

Perhaps some of the kids dont want to visit the grandparents anyway and theat the reason they dont go? Assume the resident parent would know that best, and so for better or worse i think the choice should stay with them.

MillyR · 31/03/2011 19:48

I don't think anyone should have legal rights to a child if they don't also have a legal responsibility to contribute financially to that child's upbringing.

So, the poster on here who only got to see her child 2 weekend days out of 8, how much child support were the grandparents paying?

Whitewithnosugarplease · 31/03/2011 21:26

Agree with Milly, but I don't think it's right for GP's to suddenly be cut out of their GC's lives through no fault of their own. However I can see that this could open up a whole can of worms for some families.
If this means that divorced parents get to see even less of their own DC's because grandparents are demanding more and more time how can this be right? Surely it could potentially cause even more feuds between families that the children get caught up in.
Really confused about this one

JingleMum · 31/03/2011 21:39

hmm.. i think if one parent passes away, then that parent's mother and father should be given the right to see their grandchild. of course it would go on a case by case basis (had the grandparent's been involved in the child's life before etc)

i have a question if someone can answer that would be great

i fret alot that if i die, my mum and sister wouldn't be able to see my DD anymore. they are heavily involved in my DD's life and i know they'd miss her terribly. my DP is a great dad, but he's away alot for work, he also enjoys weekends away with mates. if i'm working or busy and he's in charge of our DD, he simply passes her over to his mum (not all the time but still..) i just know that if anything happened to me that MIL would basically take over and bring my DD up, however, she is well in to her 60's and is not in the best of health. would i be able to get anything put in writing legally to say that if the worst happened my mum would have rights and some form of custody? i'm not so sure MIL would make it a priority for my mum to be in DD's life, nor would my OH.

MillyR · 31/03/2011 21:39

Family life is so much more diverse now, with children potentially having a number of different adults involved in raising them. Many children have step parents, or a parent who has lived with them since birth but isn't the non-biological parent and so on.

By giving rights particularly to grandparents, it seems to be putting a focus on the traditional family structure rather than looking at who actually spends time with a child and giving them rights. I don't see how this current change benefits children.

gateacre1 · 31/03/2011 21:55

jingle mum I am interested to hear responses to your question too.

My views on parenting are massively different from my mil/fil
they are very into the school of thought that you should not pick your baby up when it cries, that crying is shameful, they do not express love or affection easily and do not encourage imaginative play. Mil would tell my dd1 when she had a poo in her nappy that she was dirty and yacky and made my dd1 feel very ashamed when she would poo ( 18 month old) and lots of other things I dont agree with.

I hardly have any free time as I know if I leave the kids with my partner he will immediately take them to his mothers and leave them there rather than care for them himself.

I was thinking of writing a will stating that they ( the GP) can have access but not overnight or for long periods of time. but then again who could monitor this??
I would also write in my will that custody would be shared between partner and my mum.

Whitewithnosugarplease · 31/03/2011 22:15

sadly not ALL GP's are the lovey dovey story book type. How about the ones that go out of their way to make life difficult for their own Childs ex DH/DP? I have witnessed first hand GP's manipulating their own GC's against their father. Hopefully this is a rareity but it would be your word against theirs if it was taken to court.

JingleMum · 31/03/2011 22:18

gateacre 1 - i could have written that post myself! (i like your name by the way, do you live in gateacre by any chance?)

if i leave OH with our DD, he either invites his mum up to "take over" or she just comes and takes over (how she gets wind of the fact that he is in charge for the day is beyond me?) she's a lovely woman and a good grandmother but our views on parenting are very different and i just wouldn't want her bringing my DD up if anything happened to me. plus, not to be extremely shallow and superficial but her dress sense is appalling, she'd have my daughter like a tramp Blush Grin

it's just that my mother and i have very similar parenting views, my mum listens to me and honestly does as i ask. she believes i know best for my DD and follows my rules, so i know my DD would be looked after the way i would want. i'm my DD's main carer so surely it's up to me what happens if i die? i haven't got a will yet though, is this the only option?

MosEisley · 31/03/2011 22:18

What diddl said at 7:51

exoticfruits · 31/03/2011 22:24

I think that it is wonderful that they get legal rights and long overdue-it is so sad that someone has the power to close them out of their grandchild's life for no good reason.

exoticfruits · 31/03/2011 22:25

Otherwise they have to wait until they are old enough to find the grandparents and both sides have lost ime they can never get back. The DC may be far more like the grandparents than the parents.

exoticfruits · 31/03/2011 22:26

time.

scotsgirl23 · 31/03/2011 23:09

Has anyone seen whether these "rights for grandparents" will apply when the parents are still together?

I've severed all contact with my own mother. She's an utterly toxic alcoholic who threw me out on the streets when I was 17 after having done her best to ruin my childhood. She then treated me like crap for a couple more years, phoning me whilst drunk (she's an alcoholic), abusing me and my now DH down the phone, etc etc. She eventually didn't come to my wedding, and I didn't have any contact with her for over 3 years. I was in touch with her for a while after her sister died (whilst I was pregnant and had DD) but she quickly showed that she hadn't changed and that she was still as narcisistic and abusive as ever.

I kicked her out of our lives again in August, best thing I could have done as I don't want her anywhere near my DD. She looks after my great niece sometimes (who's 2) and I know for a fact she has gone to care for her after having drunk a fair amount.

The thought of her having rights to my DD terrifies DH and I - the sort of emotional and low level physical abuse I suffered was never recorded so I can't prove how awful a mother she was.

MillyR · 31/03/2011 23:57

Scotsgirl, I read in the paper today that the new rights for grandparents do not in themselves have legal standing. But if you do not abide by them, they can be held against you in custody agreements between you and the other parent.

I am assuming that means that in the event of a separation, if you did not allow the paternal grandparents to see the children, this could lead to your husband getting more time with the kids than he otherwise would have done, in order for them to see his parents.

But my understanding could be faulty.

I cannot see how it could apply when the parent with custody did not want her own parents to see the children.

RambleOn · 01/04/2011 00:55

Does anyone know if it means sole contact with GPs? In other words, could you take the DCs to visit, and be in attendance, and that count as contact?

Whatever17 · 01/04/2011 01:48

I think this whole thing is weird. GP contact should be through their own child (the parent).

For instance my ex-DH can see our kid whenever he wants, and he can take them to his parents whenever he wants. He just needs to call me so I can pack a bag and be ready to hand over.

I wouldn't make special contact with ex-DH's parents, I would expect him to do all of that. I haven't spoken to them in 10 years, it's no longer part of my "job".

The only time I would ask him not to have DS is if it was my birthday or mother's day or a special anniversary for my own family and I would ask would he mind swapping around please and give him the reason.

Equally, if he wants DS at an irregular time he would ask, explain and I would say yes if I possibly could.

monoid · 01/04/2011 01:54

I had a slightly bizarre childhood... My Mum died when I was 9yo, and then my Dad fell out with his family, but maintained a relationship with my Mum's family! So I never saw my paternal grandmother again. She died when I was 16. I don't suppose she would have wanted any rights to see us, but I would have liked to maintain contact with her. Saying that, I tried to have a relationship with my Dad's 3 sisters as an adult and I kinda see why he didn't want us round them now...
Anyway, because my Mum's family lived at the other end of the country (because my parents moved to be near my Dad's family - who he subsequently stopped speaking to) we only visited for a week twice a year.
So, in conclusion, I think that parents should be able to decide who should be a part of their children's life. But even if it is beneficial to have grandparents in the children's lives, it doesn't have to be for a huge amount of visitation rights. Contact can be maintained through letters and phone calls. I would consider myself to have better relationships with some family members that I rarely see, but speak to often on the phone, rather than those that I see often and don't really hold in high regard.
I do worry that if something happened to me, then my Dad would have automatic rights to my DD, because he is an alcoholic, which makes him a complete arsehole. And although I can convince him to stay mostly sober when we go to see him for a few days, I know that he would ruin her life if ever she were to be with him permanently.