I really can't do this anymore... how can I tell them?

[marriednotdead]

I posted this last night in the teenager section but would really appreciate some feedback so I'm braving AIBU for the first time. Please be gentle with me
Back story here and within that thread. Sorry if this is long.

DSS is 14, has lived with us for over 2 years, and creates havoc wherever he goes.
He's still not in mainstream school, we've been turned down for a statement and he has no school place at the end of this academic year. The police know him too well although he has yet to be caught doing anything, but it's only a matter of time.

The rows about his defiant behaviour are daily so DH has become a bitter and angry man who snaps at me and can see no pleasure in life. I had a small op in hospital last week and declined an early discharge because I knew I would be coming home to a warzone

The night after I came home I lost it after listening to them yet again, and told them both that I was upset that DH couldn't even care for me properly as he was consumed with all the drama. I fled to bed in tears with DH telling DSS that I would end up leaving him
Nothing changed, the shouting continued.

On Friday I woke to find DSS packing to leave. I asked him where he was going, he said 'never mind'. I sat with him and explained that he couldn't go like that, and that until another adult took responsibility for him, we had to know where he was or we'd have to report him missing. I hugged him, we talked for ages, and he told me not to try and make him stay again; he never wanted to be here in the first place.

I rang DH to tell him, and advised him to call SS. They'd closed the case despite our requests, and put him onto the duty social worker. After a few calls she rang back to say DSS's mum had offered share care 'to ease our burden'. As she's the cause of most of the problems, that's like offering an alcoholic keys to the pub!

Today DH was on the phone to SS again, telling them that he wants help, but that if DSS is given a foster placement that he will run away (so that won't work).

I realise that although I was devastated, I was relieved when I thought that DSS was going, and I'm gutted that he's still here. I know that sounds awful but walk a mile in my shoes...

I am going to have to be a cold hearted bitch and insist that he goes, even if it means foster care. I was ignored when I said it last summer, and it's worse now than ever. It's not fair on any of us, and my DCs deserve a life that doesn't resemble an episode of Jeremy Kyle. I am in tears over the slightest thing, and DH is oblivious to anything but his own pain.

I don't think he realises how determined I am to push this, and it's going to cause fireworks. He will only discuss it on his own terms ATM, so I envisage telling him at the same time I tell SS.

I almost want him to leave with DSS and right now I haven't got the energy to even care.

If you've got this far, well done. I hope you've got a large . It's times like this I wish I drank alcohol.

So, AIBU to insist DSS goes?

Any thoughts, comments, virtual shakes gratefully received...

Could you try to get him in to a Catholic secondary school? Strong ethos and discipline....

My friend had to put her own son into care because of behaviour just like this, she worked and worked to help him but eventually he started physically assaulting her and his sister and she had no choice. He eventually got taken when he tried to cut her throat one night and said he would then kill his sister, the police took him and she had to refuse to have him back. It almost destroyed her, but she had to do it. I saw what she went through, and the decision and its aftermath was not the easy option as some people think. You dont just pack them off to a foster home and forget them. You have as much involvement as before but in a different way, and it isnt easy, but it does make day to day living easier. My friend says that she is no longer living in fear of her and her daughters lives and for that reason alone she would do it again, even though it broke her heart. He makes weekend and holiday visits home, although he does have new foster families regularly as he behaves well for the first few months then starts the violence and running away once he has become settled there.

The fact that he is your SS is neither here nor there, if his behaviour is making life unbearable for everyone then you must consider what is the best course of action.

He sounds like a very troubled boy, but I am not sure what else you can do to help him. Has he had counselling to help him come to terms with his past and his mother?

On a practical note both of you would get tax credits, housing benefit help if you chose to live apart.
Would your dh be able to cope on his own though with dss?

I remember someone who went through somehting similar.

Is there any way you would consider making a fresh start with dss somewhere else? If the police know him hel always be in trouble or at least presumed to be.

what he might be crying out for is a complete fresh start, old habits are easy to fall into in the same palce with the same memories and same people and friends etc...

would you move away together and try again?

I understand what you're saying about HE not being possible, thought it might be so but that it was worth suggesting.

Unless DSS has been expelled from TWO or more mainstream schools and/or PRUs a mainstream school cannot refuse to take him although they may fight against an LA order to do so and/or say that they want him to go elsewhere (ie into another PRU/private school/specialist unit to enable him to be reintegrated into mainstream). Indeed, the LA have a legal obligation to place him in school or provide him with an education in another form as soon as is possible when his placement at the current PRU ends. They can't just say oh well, he has no school after the summer hols, that's DHs problem and walk away.

When his current placement ends and if they have not by that time got another place lined up the LA must apply their "In Year Fair Access Protocol" which is designed to fast-track children like him into education. The protocol means that the LA decides which school DSS goes to and TELLS that school that they are to take him - only on very limited grounds can the school refuse to do so and under the terms of the protocol being over-subscribed is not one of them.

It would be worth getting up your borough's copy of the protocol online now and DH reading it, also for DH to contact the Inclusion Manager at the LA NOW and ask them (preferably by email so they can't wriggle out of anything!) what they intend to provide for DSS ready for September.

WRT getting DSS into a school after the PRU etc, go onto the Secondary School Education part of the forum and put a message on there for prh47bridge - she is a complete superstar and was so very helpful in assisting me to deal with my own LA when they were not behaving as they should in applying their In Year Fair Access Protocol for DD2.

I know that education isn't the crux of the issue but I feel it really, really has a big impact on all the family and if you can get that stable it may well help you all.

So far, we have had suggestions that OP, her DH and/or her DD move house because of this situation.

Remind me again: who is causing the problem? Isn't it the DSS who should be doing the moving.

I do tend to agree with purits here. No matter what a fvcked up start in life this boy had, if he has been assessed and there are no behavioural issues to warrant more than what the educational/social/psych evaluation people have already done, then he is actually old enough to take responsibility for his own actions.
The OP and her husband shouldn't have to take on this weight. (especially not the OP, her husband, as the boy's father,fair enough, to a point)

yeah, lets just chuck out all the misbehaving kids.

I don't think you are unreasonable in the least, I really do think he has to go, you have done all you can.

Putting him in foster care may actually be a benefit to all concerned. It looks to me as if your DH, DSS and to a certain extent you, have all got set patterns of behaving with each other. The more these patterns are repeated, the more ingrained they become. You've admitted yourself that your DHs reactions don't always help the situation.

By removing him from the situation it may give all of you time to calm down. At age 14, whatever the situation, he is old enough to realise that there are consequences to actions. If you do decide to go down this route, whatever else you do, don't let yourself feel guilty about it. Instead use the time to rest, reassess and get some therapy. When you are feeling better and more in control you may then be able to look more clearly at where to go next. Good luck.

My DP has a son like this - at 17 he's a little bit older than your DSS so on top of the general issues has been arrested several times, caused criminal damage, takes drugs, may be implicated in other criminal offences, and has a baby with a girl he no longer has a relationship with. Needless to say he has no job and doesn't attend college even though he has a vocational place there.

Like yours, DPs son has had every opportunity to turn his life around. He knows full well that his lifestyle damages everyone around him, especially those who love him and those who have tried to help him, and chooses to carry on anyway.

My point is that things for you are unlikely to get better if they are not improving now, and are very likely to get worse.

When we got together DPs son was 14 but already on this path. From the start I made it absolutely clear to DP that his son was not going to be part of my life or part of my children's lives, and that if DP wanted a relationship with me I would be supportive but that I was not prepared to sacrifice my sanity and absolutely not prepared to sacrifice my children's wellbeing for his son.

I don't believe it's right for you to subject your own DCs to this awful life. What you do to yourself is your decision, but you have a responsibility to your DCs. I think DS should go, and if that doesn't happen that you should go even if it means leaving your DP.

Maryz, you've posted exactly what I was going to. Foster care would be dreadful. Another rejection for this boy (I'm guessing that he will see the fact that his mother has refused to care for him as a huge rejection) would be devastating and as Mary so clearly says foster care is highly likely to be more than one rejection, with kids moved when carers can't cope. Why should they be able to cope when you and your DH can't, and your DH is his own father and has that innate bond? Yes they have training but in practice these placements so very often fail.

Have SS suggested a Family Group Conference? These are run by an outside agency, not SS, but they bring EVERYONE, family, school, Ed Psych, SS, and the child together and decisions/plans can be made.

There needs to be a strategy around giving him, and you and his father, a way to step out of the cycle of negativity and that's alot about how you respond to him as much as it is about his behaviour.

Not saying any of this is easy. Just think that there are ports of call yet to try - and that foster care while a theoretical option, is not of real benefit. The system can only ever be a poor second to family care and in this case would be a damaging rejection for him.

I do wish you all the best, and I think as the poster above said, try to emotionally distance yourself a little at the moment just to get through the days until a plan can be made. I do think a group conference could be a good idea.

Thank you all for your responses, had to pop out for a bit. Hi again Mary- I echo what JAS says

We cannot leave London, and no-one in the family would be willing to tbh. We rent a HA property which is technically 2 bed- we split the larger bedroom so the DC's have a very small room each. The boys are in bunks as 2 singles won't fit. When DD leaves, they can have a half room each. We've been on the waiting list for a proper 3 bed for over 5 years.

He has been excluded from 2 mainstream schools. The first was a strict Catholic one (oh the irony), the second was a fresh start we jumped through hoops to get. He was kicked out within a month of going back to his mums for those 12 weeks last year.

The Catholic one were in the process of offering another chance in January, then he was spotted outside there whilst a girl was dragged off of a bus and assaulted. He didn't participate but it was enough for them to have second thoughts. So the main PRU is the only option, and one DH is very anti- all the kids carry knives for protection apparently. DSS has stated that if he's placed there he simply won't go.

I do try to detach now, if only to keep myself sane, but it's hard to do when I am trying to prop up my DH and keep him from cracking. He's freely admitted that he would have given up long ago if it weren't for me. My shoulders ache from the burden

We did the group meet last year at CAMHS and agreed strategies to progress. His mother agreed no direct contact so we could try to get him back on track but broke it almost immediately, and continued despite several reminders from SS.

I cannot begin to explain how toxic their relationship is. She wants to be his friend and play good cop so she rewards his bad behaviour and undermines any rules we try to impose, whilst refusing to have him back.
Example; DH took his mobile from him 2 weeks ago and destroyed it after the latest saga, involving huge lies, deceit, false allegations of neglect and more. She knew all this but still bought him a Blackberry on Friday.

She acts outraged that he's smoking but he says she's given him cigarettes and asked for some of his weed, and we can tell she's lying.

I could go on. Gah.

As long as she's involved, we are fighting wearing straightjackets.

OP my heart goes out to you. Actually it goes out to all of you. I can't even begin to imagine the atmosphere in your house.

I also feel so sorry for the DSS whom must feel so abandoned by the very person who he should be getting unconditional love from, namely his mum. No wonder he's angry and acting out.

Could some of his behaviour be because he has low self esteem? After all, why behave? his mum doesn't love him....he's been kicked out of schools. SS won't help and he senses he will probably end up being kicked out of his father's home too. In fact, he could be even testing his boundaries or trying to make a self-fufilling prophecy. The lure of a gang must be very appealing. A group where he "belongs", whom will accept him and his behaviour, who seemingly understand him.

Is there any counselling available for DSS or have you tried already?

I've no easy answers unfortunately but just trying to see it from DSS's point of view.

Thanks niceguy

I believe he has an attachment disorder, based on research I did via another thread, and that theory has more or less been accepted by everyone involved. It wasn't enough to get him statemented though, and CAMHS are slow to provide help- we've been waiting for emergency counselling since October..

You're spot on about the low self esteem IMO! There's also a lot of attention seeking, but he gets furious if anyone suggests either. He's a bit of a bully and wants to be top dog wherever he goes. That seems to be extending to my house and he is challenging DH so there's a constant power struggle. Testing boundaries is all he knows and a psychologist at CAMHS last year says this goes back to not being told 'no' as a toddler.

I really can see his POV, and can predict his behaviour better than DH can. I KNOW that handing him to SS will speed up the inevitable disaster, but if he is determined to 'go down', then I refuse to let him take the whole family with him.

I feel so guilty that I haven't protected my other DC's; I swore they would never have to live in a dysfunctional environment like I did

This is going to be easier said than done I know....but could the answer be to start managing his behaviour like a toddler? Ie. ignore the bad and really praise the positive? Make a fuss when he's done something good rather than give him a roasting when he's done something wrong.

It's only a suggestion as I can see you could easily end up in a situation like with his mum where it appears he is being rewarded for his bad behaviour.

I just think underneath his macho actions, is a little boy who is angry at the world and only is getting attention from adults when he is misbehaving. And one day if/when you & his dad kick him out after (understandably) reaching the end of your tethers, it just reaffirms to him that no-one really loves him and he must be some sort of freak who doesn't deserved to be loved.

Niceguy, we've honestly tried all these tactics, at length, and with outside help

I feel obstructive as I bat these back but they are always and invariably thwarted by either his own actions, or something his mum does.

All of his behaviours point to Attachment Disorder as I mentioned earlier but naming the problem doesn't make it any easier to live with, especially as he has an almost sociopathic lack of conscience/remorse.

Your last sentence sums up the reason I have resisted letting him go until now, but I can't see any other way

Probably longer than that

I've know DSS since he was 5. At either his 6th or 7th BD party, I watched his mum tell him off. The look of pure contempt he shot her was shocking, but she didn't bat an eyelid, she was already used to it. I knew from then that he would end up with us.