Anyone want to name an example of a protest march that a) acheived its aim...

[SpringchickenGoldBrass]

within living memory and b) achieved its aim better and quicker because some fuckwits people actually took their very small DC along?

SGB - is that your best shot at self-defence? That post was utterly tragic.

Oh do keep up with the foot-stamping and squeaking, it's getting quite entertaining now.

I'm afraid it's getting a boring now, not entertaining, SGB. It is you who is whineyarsed about children being on a peaceful march. You appear to be a great deal more conservative and closed than you wish to believe about yourself. Policitcal activism is a closed book to you, and should only be exercised within strict parameters.

FFS children would have been safe and clearly this thread has shown this.....

A 3yr old and 10month yr old would have been bored or me and my hubby may well have been there.

Thatcher is haunting us all again, as a child of the thatcher years who grew up in a single parent family on a council estate, i can say that the Tories are fecking evil bastards and it ain't gonna get better....

we both work full time but our living costs have gone up dramatically, food shopping especially it is going to get worse, not sure i we can cope with much more increase....

Labour by no means were perfect but they cared about every day people and making vunerable people able to have support and start to get work/independent which benefits all of society in the long run!

lets be realistic about this, Labour didn't control the banks, HOWEVER what everyone seems to forget is the banking crisis was a "Worldwide" issue not nique to the UK! So it wasn't solely Labours fault yes they could have done stuff earlier however, they didn't who's to say Tories or Libdems would have...

The one thing "Condem" has assured going forward there will be two main parties Tories and Labour... the Lib Dems will prob get the same level of votes as the Raving Loney Party going forward....

at the end of the day we aren't going to feel all the cuts immediately...... however it is worth remembering when Labour took over from the Tory Twats they had shit to sort out/debts/policies and Tory twats/Lib dem illusionists are going to continue to blame Labour cos they can....

Really politicians need to grow some and listen to public opinion....i think the protests will be successful but only if supported by things like work to rule by public sector then and only then maybe people will realise how many public services are supported by staff working long hours, teachers providing their own stationary/classroom equipment/nhs staff working silly hours with no extra pay to ensure key services aren't impacted.....

I hope we get to vote again very soon, and that those that voted Lib Dems can see the errors in there ways (my hubby included he is gutted they went to conservatives!). We don't normally get any polictally stuff through the post but we have had two lots of leaflets for the tories as we are in a tory safe belt but election day is 5/5/2011 we will not be voting tory lets hope our neighbours in our error feel the same way!!!!

Ohh and lets look at this realistically Labour didn't fight to get Libs with them so they knew this government was condemed and would not get voted back in again....

Took my dcs on a protest march in Liverpool against the cuts. Large number of the marchers were there because of the cuts to our fantastic Surestart children centres. Four were down for closure. They have now been reprieved. I took the kids because they pretty much lived there during my mat leave and went into the Surestart nursery when I went back to work. I felt they therefore had a legitimate interest in being there.

So, I would say,"yes" and "yes" to the original question.

Rohanda: Are you 15 or something? You seem incapable of separating acts (going on, or not going on, a protest march) from opinions (agreeing or disagreeing with the aims and views of the marchers). It's a bit 'If you don't repost this facebook update about dead babies you must be a child-killer'.

oh stop squealing SGB - you've lost the argument on this thread, but like an irate, stomping teenager yourself you won't admit it. You've become tedious.

Direct action like the protests by the unions on Saturday is very rarely effective in this country and I don't think that it will achieve anything.

Rohanda: if you thnk 'having a lot of people whine at you a bit irrelevantly' counts as losing an argument, you may need to redefine that definition.

More teenage stomping. Night SGB. Get over yourself.

SGB there have been ample explanations to answer both your questions.

Can I ask your political views as you seem to be trying to undermine the protest and the people who attended?

Are you being affected by the cuts in a recognisble way or do you feel they won't affect you?

Just out of curiosity BTW, not implying but asking.

Well, I was at the front of the anti war march and that did jack diddly squat :(

I would be interested in hearing SGB's answer to LDNmummy's question about whether SGB will be impacted by the cuts.

I can only imagine the answer will be 'not much' because anybody who stands to lose a great deal of support (please read Glittaknickaz, StewieGriffinsMums posts) will be out there doing whatever they can to oppose the cuts, including going on peaceful mass demo's. Whatever it takes. Even if it changes nothing at least these people can hold their heads up and say I cared and I tried.

I feel sad that the OP and one or two other posters on here have such little regard for their fellow human beings that (a) they do not feel moved to support those who will be hurt immeasurably by the cuts and (b) brand those that do as whining, left wing, poseurs.

It really does suggest a staggering lack of empathy and intelligent thought.

Interesting to see that we pretty much have gone back 30 years in time, isn't it? Maybe it's just that Im old enough to remember this particular brand of no-brainer self-righteous squawkery where questioning anything about the methods used in pursuit of a cause immediately translates, in some people's underexercised minds as 'Bwaaaah! Class traitor! Tory! Enemy!'.

"It's interesting how saying that you think it's a bad idea to take small children on a demo is immediately interpreted by some people as 'Waaaah! You must be an Evil Tory!' I made no comment on the subject and aims of the demo at all. But it does rather reinforce the impression that going on a demo is, for a lot of people, a way of going 'Look how good I am! Look how much I care about stuff. Never mind that I'm not capable of coming up with an alternative way of getting the desired result, questioning me in any way makes you The Enemy."

SGB - is that all you got???

A lot of posters here have given you some very interesting examples of what they have done - other than marching - to get the 'desired result'.

You have ignored all of that and focused on the EVIL TORY vs LEFT WING HIPPY POSEUR labelling argument which, I admit, I have also indulged in. I regret dragging the discussion on this thread to that level but lets face it your OP wasn't exactly setting the bar high.

You tend to get more 'lively' protests when the Tories are in power, that's a fact. I'm all in favour of protesting but in the current climate people have to understand that cuts are necessary.
the parties over, time for the hangover to kick in I'm afraid.

In answer to your original question:
a) the Orange Revolution, Tunisia, Egypt
b) see above

6 months ago nobody thought/expected any kind of change in Egypt and Tunisia.

though I agree with you that children shouldn't be taken to a protest, unless completely unavoidable. It's just asking for trouble.

No children were killed or injured on the march. Six children per day are killed on UK roads. Everyone who takes their child in a car is a MASSIVE 'fuckwit' then, in your charming parlance OP.

Loving the 'tories are cnuts' posters, all full of class hate while carefully avoiding the fact that Labour would have been making the same cuts right now had they not been kicked out.

I wonder if the same protest would have occurred?

OP - YANBU - its daft to take kids on protests. This is doubly true when the reason for the protest is so that Labours militant wing can get some exercise.

Also - no doubt a lot of those kids will grow up more intelligent and self sufficient than their parents, and will have right wing leanings. Taking them on a meaningless left wing protest at cuts that have to be made no matter who is in charge is borderline abuse IMO.

Borderline abuse

Children just naturally go along to what their parents do, though - if you like football or opera, you'll take them along eventually. When they get older they might like rugby or pop music - that's life, they'll have had a headstart in figuring out their own aims.

Same with religion, really, unless the parent tries to brainwash them - and I know religious parents who would bring their child up in their own faith (why on earth wouldn't you?) but would accept it if their child sought out another or none.

If my DC grow up to be rabid Tories it'll keep me on my toes & make for some lively dinner table discussion in later years *

I very much doubt they'll be in therapy though, because I took them out one day to stroll along with a load of firemen, nurses, teachers & concerned individuals with a social conscience!

And at least will have some understanding of how media reports can be manipulated.

• OMG though, the thought that I may be inadvertantly raising the next Toby Young is making me think I should enrol them in the Young Conservatives, pronto

(Toby Young was the first person who sprung to mind as someone who might have been a bit ....erm damaged by having rather lefty parents).

Jury's out on the Milibands, I think, and Alexei Sayle seems like a very well-adjusted individual even if was made to watch Battleship Potemkin instead of Bambi .