to find this article on motherhood inFURiating?

[BlooferLady]

Guardian writer in 'motherhood is hell' shock

Disclaimer: je suis TTCing. Erm, for a LONG time!

I didn't want children for years. YEARS! Was violently opposed to it And you know why? Because it looked like one long unending saga of drudgery, misery, isolation and loss of identity and self-respect (I have a large family and thus had the opportunity to observe its effects up close every 18 months or so).

We're TTCing now - hormones and a little wisdom took over, and I would very much like to be a mother. And yet here on MN and in the press I find my old terrors reinforced, and this article sums it all up. Everything I feared is true...

BUT IS IT? By the end of the article I wanted to slap the woman. She complains of her life dwindling to a miserable compressed world of perma-exhaustion, leaking breasts, nappy changes, never seeing her old friends, losing her sense of a professional life, only ever socialising with mothers and mother and toddler groups, bitterly envying women who still go to work, angry with her partner for not helping out round the house...

Someone PLEASE tell me it doesn't have to be like this. I wanted to yell at her, get out of the damn house and DO stuff you moaning bint! No-one MAKES you go to mother and toddler groups - put the creature in a sling and wander round the V&A! Let your partner do a bottle feed in the evening and go out for a boozy dinner! Do some work from home! MAKE your partner help out!

Surely there are people here on MN whose entire character isn't subsumed into the drudgery of being a mother? Who continue to be lively, interested in the larger world, engaged with their friends, interested in their career, happy in their relationships, still maintaining a sense of self and self-respect? For motherhood extends, informs, illuminates their life - doesn't effectively end it! Because if not, I don't want children. AIBU?!

Blooferlady it sounds as if it will be fine for you. Just try and relax and have as low standards as you can! Much of the stuff mothers worry about and spend anguish and time on with their first is really unimportant. Mind you I had 4 close together, so that kind of encourages you to have low standards.

My OH and I had a private joke when other mums worried about the state of their house. "Is it still standing?" we would say and laugh, because if it was, thats fine.

And I really believe that if you have low standards you are much more likely to be able to enjoy your babies and children.

'Sokay Laq, was a perfickly reasonable question :)

And you WILL Boo. You WILL

Lesley that's so wise and so reassuring, thank you :) In a way, my pessimism might work in my favour. I'm not expecting sunshine and roses, and so when there's a bit of moonshine and a daisy or two instead, it will do me very nicely, if you see what I mean.

I certainly have practically no expectations at all on material stuff, so that at least works in my favour - try as I might can't get excited about spensive baby stuff and what have you. The extent of my motherhood fantasies is constructing gigantic Norman castles of empty lavatory rolls and cereal boxes and so forth !

Oh there's a neverending stream of people who want to whine about motherhood. Personally I find it a piece of piss but that's a more taboo topic than smoking during pregnancy or using fruit-shoots as a bribing mechanism.

But... then I wasn't living the life of last minute trips to Rome for the weekend or dinner at Nobu. Of course you can take the children on holiday, just requires an extra bag. Of course you can take the children to restaurants - but a "Harvester" at 5pm is probably a better bet than the Oxo Tower at 10.

Motherhood can be as boring and tiresome as you make it.

boo A friend of mine is a professional musician (i.e., works a lot, earns pittance) - he got a gig in India when his girls were 2 and 5. They went en masse as a family for 6 months the back-packing/hippy route and had a whale of a time.

Also lots of mothers go on to have more than 1 child. If it was really truly hell, it would make much more sense for 2nd children to be very very rare. Many go on to have more children, because despite all the work they do get something positive out of having children.

Also bear in mind most people have a stage/age that they find difficult or hard to deal with. With some it is the young baby stage. For me it is the teenage tutting stage - does my head in. This will probably happen to you, but every stage does pass.

When we had DC1 (now 6) DP and I both started working 3 days per week and shared childcare and housework. I felt live with a small baby was tiring and hard work, but we were sharing it equally, also DP was very keen on part-time working and spending time with his son. In social work and teaching part-time working seems to be very accepted and normal, as there is a high percentage of women in these professions - can't that work for the majority of professions? We are not big spenders and don't have huge expenses, so there is no pressure to earn lots.

I have to admit though, after DD (now 2) I am working less and I am 'in charge' of general childcare in the house, not the cleaning though, I'm not keen on that - so I am slowly falling into the usual trap, I feel I loose self-confidence and self-worth.

But should I? I am bringing up 2 wonderful children, who are bilingual, continuously educating them and satisfying their curiosities, preparing them to be valued members of the next generation, who will have to support us in our old age - isn't that one of the most important jobs? I love it, but at the same time I feel I am loosing myself.

Oh dear, I'm cluster-posting.

A healthy dose of pessimism, or rather a "healthy dose of reality" will do you well as you go down the route of having children. You'd have to be a naive fool to think it'll all be plain sailing. I went in to this knowing I wasn't going to sleep properly for a long time. So although I say it's a "piece of piss" - most nights I'm woken between 6 and 10 times and I still work full-time and I still say it's easy, because I knew what I was letting myself in for. I didn't have any daft ideas about what was to come.

Pony I like, as you well know, your style .

I wonder why it appears so unacceptable to talk about finding motherhood relatively easy and enjoyable? There does seem to be a streak of competitiveness that appears in women the moment they've given birth....is it because if you talk a great deal about how difficult, how challenging, how tiring something is, you sort of give yourself status? I mean - I know people like that at work: they have to make the most tremendous MEAL out of everything they do because that gets them noticed, heard, sympathised with. Is there something similar going on with mothers? I realise I'm treading on dangerous territory here....

Or maybe, Alps you are one of those lucky people with lots of strength and stamina? For me, the thought of waking between 6 and 10 times a night and then going to work makes me blanch in horror. Fuck!

Gabid your post is very interesting, because you are aware that what are you doing is essentially the most important and useful function of a human being, but are still experiencing that loss of self....I wonder what the solution is? I guess in an ideal world mothers would be lauded and appreciated for what they do and that in itself would prove as fulfilling and respected a career path as being (for eg) a brain surgeon.

I have to admit, and I hope you don't mind my honesty, that because I have a really consuming ambition/career I can't imagine that falling by the wayside, or motherhood being a total replacement. But who bloody knows. I must not make assumptions on my own part or anyone else's...

Motherhood is easy, pregnancy on the other hand? Meep, I was shoite at that!

Bloofer I sometimes wonder if the ones trying to achieve status via mothering-martyrdom are doing it because they have voluntarily given up everything which ever made them "them" - and so without their children are just hollow shells and shadows of their former selves. You need only look at the threads "how do I get a job I've been a SAHM for 10 years". Even basic tasks seem unobtainable to the institutionalised. And... and, and, and - without putting too fine a point on it - what dreadful bores they must become to their partners!

Aries I can recommend putting in some time to find a foundation which makes you look fabulous. Also, put the effort in to finding really good quality coffee with a good kick! And something which makes you feel wonderful. Yesterday I left work an hour early and took the horse out through the forest and ended up galloping through the woods and fields in 18 degree sunshine. That recharges the batteries a little. :)

gabid No you shouldn't lose self worth because what you are doing is important. But if we don't do things for a while they can often seem enormously difficult and thus we feel less confident. For example, if we aren't mixing with lots of adults like we might at work, then after a while doing so becomes daunting and we lose confidence.

Can you build into your life something with other adults where you can get a sense of achievement? Maybe a very part time course at a local college that has a creche? Or part time work?

I was going into motherhood completley naive - I had a job interview lined up a week after my due date, thinking I could just carry on as before with some minor changes to my lifestyle.

I think when Mums who have challenges with their children share their stories it can be helpful or unhelpful.

Helpful because they may feel relieved as they discover aren't the only ones struggling, and they may be able to share ways of dealing with things.

Unhelpful when it becomes about competition and not about support. I hear the competetive stuff with people who don't know each other well.

I am so blessed that my close friends all decided to have children at around the same time as me, so I'm happy to share all the good stuff and the bad.

I'm happy about that, see, and am now worried I sound smug.

But tbh I never saw looking after my children as a "job". Yes its hard work, but I always saw it as a relationship.

Agree pony about those trying to achieve martyrdom via motherhood. They are the ones that make motherhood such hard work!

Gabid I wonder if it's the gap between expectation and reality's so hard? My expectations have gone too far one way, yours were (perhaps) too far the other? lesley is wise - is there anything you can do that will give you the sense of achievement and identity you need? Someone I know joined a community choir when she had young children - once a week, fun skilled stuff and beer after, and her DP coming along to concerts at Christmas with their DC and being proud of what she was doing. Soemthing only small and daft but made a big difference.

I do still work a bit - I teach one day per week - it doesn't seen to feel very relevant though.

Boo you don't sound smug at all. It's great to hear things from every perspective.

Most of the people around me have the attitude of this journalist too. I find it so sad that very close friends/friends that used to be very close until about 3 months ago have this attitude. Although, my thoughts are now, that I don't want to be around people like this when my baby is born and so won't - it's their loss if their friendship group decreases and not mine.

I haven't really socialised with these people for a number of months prior to this anyway and so, it really won't be a difference in my life if they don't start being supportive when the baby comes - going to look towards family and people who are becoming close friends of mine through experiences we are having now instead.

It must have been a shock gabid! Sounds like my friend who with OH bought a new house with a move in date of 3 weeks after the due date. I did try and suggest that this might not be wise, but they didn't want to hear it. Yes it was very difficult for them!

Just to say as well that some have mothers have very difficult births with pain and other complications afterwards. This of course would make the early weeks/months much much harder, but it would ghet better.

Gabid, relevant to what? To whom? Don't be so hard on yourself! I run my own company and many people tell me how laudable that is, but it is actually the most pointless thing you can imagine, in the grand scheme of things. Without wanting to start an existentialist debate, ultimately all work is pointless, as evolution dictated that we should hunt and gather and reproduce and that's about it!

I bet your kids don't think you're irrelevant.

I am a single mum to a prem baby (well he's 2 now) and apart from the very traumatic first few months of his life I also (mostly) find it a piece of piss.

I feel like I'm on a permanent holiday just getting together with friends and relaxing.
I do still work but from home so no child care needed.

I think you change as a person alot as you really do become less selfish. It's a cliche but it's true. You only have yourself to think about now, you can disappear for a weekend, say yes to all the invites you want, so in a way your life pre children is far simpler.
But my life is just so much more meaningful and I wonder why the hell I didn't do it sooner and also not left it too late to have loads more.
I can honestly say I am the happiest I have ever been in my life.
I also understand that not everyone feels the same.

I actually quite liked this article, I have a 3 month old and it does say a lot of what I sometimes feel. this bit about her return to work scares me though:

"Despite our now quite determined efforts to share the parenting equally, a combination of habit, social structures, cultural norms and earning power means that I have become, and remain, like so many of the women I have spoken to, the foundation parent. We have resisted the worst of these forces, yet they are so powerful that they still leave their mark. Despite both spending a great deal of time with our son, I do most of the planning and errands for him, such as buying his clothes, making his medical appointments and finding out about playgroups: all tasks I became accustomed to while on maternity leave."

Sorry didn't read your post right gabid. It sounds as if you do need something else. My mum did an evening course 1 day a week when I was very young. Went for an evening one so no problems with childcare. It gave her a sense of achievement and she said it got her brain working again.