to find this article on motherhood inFURiating?

[BlooferLady]

Guardian writer in 'motherhood is hell' shock

Disclaimer: je suis TTCing. Erm, for a LONG time!

I didn't want children for years. YEARS! Was violently opposed to it And you know why? Because it looked like one long unending saga of drudgery, misery, isolation and loss of identity and self-respect (I have a large family and thus had the opportunity to observe its effects up close every 18 months or so).

We're TTCing now - hormones and a little wisdom took over, and I would very much like to be a mother. And yet here on MN and in the press I find my old terrors reinforced, and this article sums it all up. Everything I feared is true...

BUT IS IT? By the end of the article I wanted to slap the woman. She complains of her life dwindling to a miserable compressed world of perma-exhaustion, leaking breasts, nappy changes, never seeing her old friends, losing her sense of a professional life, only ever socialising with mothers and mother and toddler groups, bitterly envying women who still go to work, angry with her partner for not helping out round the house...

Someone PLEASE tell me it doesn't have to be like this. I wanted to yell at her, get out of the damn house and DO stuff you moaning bint! No-one MAKES you go to mother and toddler groups - put the creature in a sling and wander round the V&A! Let your partner do a bottle feed in the evening and go out for a boozy dinner! Do some work from home! MAKE your partner help out!

Surely there are people here on MN whose entire character isn't subsumed into the drudgery of being a mother? Who continue to be lively, interested in the larger world, engaged with their friends, interested in their career, happy in their relationships, still maintaining a sense of self and self-respect? For motherhood extends, informs, illuminates their life - doesn't effectively end it! Because if not, I don't want children. AIBU?!

pointy no I don't want to hear only the sunny things. I'm not a total imbecile, just a bit of one! I was hoping for some ground between "OMG I hate this I hate it hate it hate my life is rubbish I am so tired I never see my friends what have I done" and "OMG this is the best thing evah my baby poos sunshine". And lots of people have talked about that middle ground, and it's been great.

You're right though, IABU to get this irritated. I shall have another

Skinit "Stop reading this stuff". Whole dilemma summed up in 4 words. Can't argue with you there!

(although I do bashfully maintain it's not completely idiotic for someone in a pretty lengthy period of TTC to worry about what they're letting themselves in for....)

Clearly Rebecca Asher has got it together at some level, as she's written a book on motherhood quite soon after having children (no mean feat)!

I think she also points up some interesting aspects about the 1950's style relationship which can end up as the default if you don't go out of your way to challenge it early on. I've read a few threads recently where this is exactly the complaint, and these are clever career women who are being shoved into the caretaker role by their husbands without any discussion of dividing it all up properly.

Personally, I found the first year almost impossible, but have loved being a mother since. I go and kiss my two sleeping girls on their faces at night before I go to bed, and tell them I love them, I rarely walk away without a pang of love and even the odd tear.

I have a strong professional identity because my husband supports me to do so, and is prepared to do the ballet run, and speaks openly about whose career is prioritised at any one time. This is not easy though, but it became very clear early on that the 1950's thing wasn't going to work for us. But I am a lot happier being a harassed working mum with a tip for a house than the alternative, so that is what I choose. Xenia's point that you should marry a non-sexist man has never looked more relevant.

Oooh look who I've found in Active Convos ,nice fred Bloofer :o

Another vote for Greythorne's post- so well put.

I just wrote a megalong reply to this and then deleted it all by accident.

In a nutshell: I do love being a Mum, but I have days when I miss 'me'. I think that there are sacrifices that inevitably end up getting made, and that is part and parcel of parenthood.

Some days it's breezy and some days it's bloody hard work. And it does turn up the heat on my relationship with my husband - particularly when we are all ill or sleep deprived (and worse, both).

I think people that bang on about how great things are on mumsnet get accused of smuggery, and moaning posts are much better received :o Seriously though, I think people tend to post when they're needing support with something.

Sometimes I wonder why we are trying to conceive another child when we are slowly getting our independence back and life is getting easier -he put all of his clothes on for the first time yesterday morning. A part of me was thrilled and another sad at how quickly he is growing up - it's all so double edged.

I think going into it with your eyes wide open certainly helps Bloofer, and you have good people to support you when it happens. I don't know if I'd have enjoyed/ be enjoying it so much without the help and support of family and friends.

There are some things you can do to help yourself. And other things are just down to luck.

If you have a sickly / colicky / non-sleeping baby it CAN be really hard to get out and about. If you have PND, ditto. And your first is so much more overwhelming than subsequent ones; everything feels so high stakes. My first boy had a severe tongue tie and colic, so feeding was a nightmare. I COULD have taken him screaming in his sling to the V&A and spent the afternoon weeping into a cup of tea whilst thwapping my unwieldy squirting boobs around in the gift shop, but for a while, it was all too much. I was just trying to get food into him and that was already proving emotional / overwhelming / excruciating enough without factoring in an audience.

Equally, I think there's an element of working out what works for you, as Val said - some people thrive on toddler groups, some people want to hang themselves from the play kitchen (I was in the latter camp). I think again, especially first time around, there is this general fear that you are somehow letting your child down if you don't plan a whirlwind of stimulating activities all day every day from birth. It is hard to go against that, because you don't want everyone else who IS doing that to think you're a shit Mum. Second time round you know yourself more, you know what is and isn't important more, and you're just a bit more relaxed... I think. It's early days for me on that front

So what Aries said really - I think it's a combination of PMA and luck. So I don't think YABU, but nor do I think she is.

Onetoomany hmph, good point - if she's written a book that's a good sign even if it is tedious shite.

Morning boo! Thanks for all that. The eyes wide open thing is very important, I think. At the very least I am under no illusions whatever about how utterly crapping appalling everything is going to be

Cass you are, as ever, wise and kind.

I remain, however, depressed. as I keep saying, a lengthy period of TTC does give you too much time to think about what you're trying to achieve. And to someone like me, almost VISCERALLY opposed to motherhood from the earliest age, and to be honesty pretty surprised to be TTCing, then constant reminders that it is painful, exhausting, boring, thankless, miserable, all-consuming, depressing, lonely, isolating ... well: you can imagine how it feels.

Looking on the bright side, since I am absolutely convinced that if I do have a baby my life will contain not one glimmer of joy, hope,peace, rest or personal fulfilment for two years, then any snatched moments of happiness will come as a nice surprise...

Casserole, not really on topic, but my first had severe tongue-tie and I didn't know about it, once I did I realised why that early period was so awful, difficulties feeding and latching etc. It makes me cross though, as this is quite a well-known cause of breastfeeding and weaning problems, and yet so many people still have an awful time because of it (obviously if they are happy and there are no issues, they don't have to get it snipped). There are lots of ways in which the over-stretch of maternity and HV services and lack of knowledge/inclination to tackle these minor issues contribute to many mums having a really hard time in those early years when actually, they didn't need to.

OP I was struck by this post.

"I assumed that motherhood was like any other job if you are dedicated and work hard you will achieve your targets and everything will go to plan."

Someone who approaches motherhood in this way is going to have a big shock. Of course its harder physical work, but think about how some people talk when they first get married/live together.

For some it is a nightmare of OH who doesn't do their share, OH noisy/smelly friends, etc. For some it is great, But the key thing is it is a relationship.

Having a baby or child is a relationship. Yes you have some control over what your baby or child does. But because it is a relationship it is also about reacting to that child and going with the flow a bit.

In some ways mothers who start off with definete ideas of how their baby or child is going to behave or what they are going to do reminds me of women who start off with fixed ideas about what their husband or OH is going to do or be like. They then spend an enormous amount of energy and time trying to get their OH to be like this.

You need to try and not have fixed ideas about what your child will be like or do or what you will be like as a mother. It is harder with the 1st, but if you try and relax and be laid back then it can be great fun.

Others have mentioned SN or colicky babies making it hard. The other thing from observation that seems to make it hard is if you have unresolved issues with your parents e.g. abuse. Having children does remind you very much about your own childhood.

For some that can bring a closeness to parents. But if you have unresolved issues around say abuse, when your child gets to the age when you were first abused can be enormously difficult. So if this is you, then try and deal as much as you can with these issues through counselling say before you have a child.

Can i ask you why are you ttcing, how did you decide to go ahead after years of not wanting to?

Onetoo I couldn't agree MORE. It made my life hell tbh. And even though it had been identified, they wouldn't do anything because they don't snip them in my area My GP could have referred us to GOSH but there was a 4 month waiting list.

Eventually we found out that the private wing of a hospital about half an hour away did them. So we got my GP to refer us there - I think they said it was going to cost about £200 but we were desperate at that point. I don't know what she put in her referral letter but GOd bless him, the private consultant rang us himself that same evening, said he'd just seen the referral on the fax and if we came the next day, he would do it for free. And he did, and it Changed My Life. I have just filled up thinking about it and it was nearly 3 years ago. I will be forever grateful for that man's kindess.

Anyway. Tangent over, sorry.

Bloo you WILL love it. You will. It'll be hard some days, but it will also be the most amazing thing you've ever done. I'll put a hundred quid on it with you

And lots of things we do that are great are exhausting and difficult at times. Not the same I know, but we did up an old house over a number of years. Was it exhausting at times - yes it was physically shattering at times. Did we have annoyance with builders etc - yes. Did I and my OH bicker because we were stressed and tired - yes. Am I glad we did it - yes!

And I also expected children to be hell on earth - especially the 1st six months. I actually really enjoyed most of it.

As a fairly new mother at 37 my life does not have too many parallels with the author of the article. Yes life does have to follow some routine with a small baby but it's not the drudgery she describes. I'm lucky as I have a great husband who believes childcare is a shared responsibility, although he works full time compressed hours so is at home 3 days most weeks, but I still do the majority of childcare as I am on maternity leave. I have enjoyed watching the relationship between him and our daughter develop - it's lovely to watch the child we made between us growing and developing.

I'm lucky that my long term friends all have children so we had a relationship before children but also a changed relationship as mothers. It's great that we can talk about other things and not just babies. My retired parents are also local so I see them and they love time with their grandaughter. Life need not be the struggle described in the article - yes it's hard but the rewards are immense. Good luck with TTC!

Although I am worried that you say you never wanted children. Why now then?

Hi Laquitar that is a very good question. Out of nowhere, about 5 years ago, I was overwhelmed with an almost physical need for a child. I suppose that was the beginning of the clock ticking. I have been blissfully happily married for 11 years. My DH would like children. I want someone to love and care for. I have no interest in passing on my DNA, I do not find the idea of pregnancy especially appealing (though it does look interesting to experience!), and I don't get gooey over babies. But I want to LOVE. I want to cook meals for someone, I want to be responsible for their welfare, both inside and out. I want to laugh with them over daft things they've found in the garden, I want to sit up late and tell idiotic stories when they can't sleep. All of the perfectly ordinary things parents do.

some people have misunderstood my OP and everything after and think I have some rosy view of motherhood. I don't. It's the EXACT opposite. I seem to hear nothing but misery and drudgery. Possibly because people don't like talking about the good stuff for fear of seeming smug. So I am caught between these two poles - wanting children, and having this strange childhood suspicion that it's ghastly, and then have it reinforced over and over again everywhere you look...

PS Lesley, I don't know if it is relevant why the OP now wants children after many years of thinking she did not. This is extremely common. I don't think you need to worry about it. The fact is, she now does.

Lesley see above! Don't be worried, please! Precocious girls in their early 20s with dreams of vast artistic achievement and world travel often don't want kids! It changes. We grow up...

(badly times x-post)

Fanks Aries. Am worried am painting myself as unsuitable mother material...

Ariesgirl, it's where the flap of skin under the tongue really anchors the tongue down, and the baby can't stick its tongue out at all. It's bad for breastfeeding, they can't get a good latch (we looked permanently like the 'bad' picture in the breastfeeding leaflet) and it makes it very painful for the mother, plus it can cause choking/difficulty weaning and speech difficulties if you are unlucky (some seem to grow out and don't cause probs).

This is kind of relevant though, because I often think that many of the things that make that early motherhood stage so difficult (such as probs breastfeeding, being isolated) are entirely avoidable and are really structural issues. There's such a lack of continuity of care in hospitals when giving birth and afterwards, seeing different people all the time, and new mums just get lost along the way. Then when you get issues like tongue-tie which is really not a big deal, it's dealt with in an unhelpful bureaucratic way (if at all) and so we go on.

Second time around, I had most of the same problems, but was wiser and simply demanded what I needed. It made motherhood much easier, our society seems to make it harder work than it need be, sometimes.

But good Lord woman, you drink alcohol

Onetoomany you make an excellent point there. That some of the difficulties are not endemic but problems that can be addressed....

Shhhhhh aries

Thank you Onetoomany - I thought it was something like that. I have been sticking my tongue out at myself in the mirror and examining its anatomy.

Seems to me that if it's a known, common, acknowledged condition, the fact that it causes such problems is nothing short of criminal and negligent. That it should cause such desperation and depression!

Ok. I was just curious btw i didn't mean that it is odd or something. I came late into motherhood so i too have spend many childfree years wondering how it is going to be (well, mind you i was working with children but it is not the same at all).

I still dream of going travelling, hippy style, dripping babies and children like Kate Winslet in that film when she goes to Morocco. And I still want to be a pop star. Who says you have to grow up? :o