to find this article on motherhood inFURiating?

[BlooferLady]

Guardian writer in 'motherhood is hell' shock

Disclaimer: je suis TTCing. Erm, for a LONG time!

I didn't want children for years. YEARS! Was violently opposed to it And you know why? Because it looked like one long unending saga of drudgery, misery, isolation and loss of identity and self-respect (I have a large family and thus had the opportunity to observe its effects up close every 18 months or so).

We're TTCing now - hormones and a little wisdom took over, and I would very much like to be a mother. And yet here on MN and in the press I find my old terrors reinforced, and this article sums it all up. Everything I feared is true...

BUT IS IT? By the end of the article I wanted to slap the woman. She complains of her life dwindling to a miserable compressed world of perma-exhaustion, leaking breasts, nappy changes, never seeing her old friends, losing her sense of a professional life, only ever socialising with mothers and mother and toddler groups, bitterly envying women who still go to work, angry with her partner for not helping out round the house...

Someone PLEASE tell me it doesn't have to be like this. I wanted to yell at her, get out of the damn house and DO stuff you moaning bint! No-one MAKES you go to mother and toddler groups - put the creature in a sling and wander round the V&A! Let your partner do a bottle feed in the evening and go out for a boozy dinner! Do some work from home! MAKE your partner help out!

Surely there are people here on MN whose entire character isn't subsumed into the drudgery of being a mother? Who continue to be lively, interested in the larger world, engaged with their friends, interested in their career, happy in their relationships, still maintaining a sense of self and self-respect? For motherhood extends, informs, illuminates their life - doesn't effectively end it! Because if not, I don't want children. AIBU?!

There'sapotato - that's GREAT to hear too, that the other Mums you've met have been int'resting and funny and whatnot. God, how bigoted am I - surprised that not all mothers are ghastly!

(At this point I do slightly worry that my sisters or my Mum are reading this )

I haven't read it but I don't find motherhood to be like that. I have just the one and no plans for another for a good while, if at all, but I work still (not particularly ambitious money and aclaim wise, but I need to work and be fulfilled) manage to just about maintain my relationship (though our issues have been nothing to do with DS) and have a social life. It's more limited than it used to be, life is different, no spare cash, more planning - but it's also better for all that. Sure, the first six months was a bit discombobulating, but thankfully you don't really realise how hard it was til you're out of it IYSWIM.

I wonder whether a lot of you on this thread even read the actual article?

I've just read it and I thought she made some interesting and valid points. Yes she talks about her experience of the first year as being very hard, but that's not all she talks about; most of the article addresses the parenting roles that couples fall into, why that happens, and whether there's a different, more equal, way of doing things.

One poster said that she doesn't mention loving her child. Yes she does; she says that she loves him and was devoted to him.

So as far as I'm concerned OP, YANBU.

Really Georgiemama? People can decide not to have PND? People can decide not to have a baby that wakes every 40 minutes all night? I didn't have the first, but I did have the second. Actually I did cope with it, by taking up cosleeping, but it certainly changed my life. My point - and I'm sorry if I misinterpreted the op - is that canvassing other people's opinions and stating your to support your belief about what motherhood will be like for you is going to make NO difference to what it will actually be like. No one knows how they are going to react to motherhood or what kind of child they will get.

The article was very dull and whingy - I didn't read it properly, tbh. I just reacted to the op. It sounded very like a good friend of mine who was full of opinions about what her birth and parenting was going to be like and where everyone else was going wrong. She has spent the first year of her baby's life moaning 'why did nobody tell me?' - before she goes and offers another opinion about how toddlers or older children should be parented. Makes me want to bang my head against the wall.

It is possible to retain the sense of self you refer to. I have a combination of work and family that seems to work really well, very lucky in that regard. I write for a living and bizarrely have been most creative when most tired. Last year I turned out the best professional work I ever have, at a time when I struggled to drive in a straight line or remember what I did the previous day. Not quite sure how that happened.

I don't think I've ever lost this sense of "me" other than the sleep dep making me forget my own name.

There are many things about babies that take an adjustment but pregnancy is actually a great training ground in that you have no control over aspects of what is happening and the baby comes first (e.g. you even can't take ibuprofen or decongestants or antibiotics unless the doctor specially allows it).

I hope you get your positive test very soon, you sound determined enough to make a great mother.

Don't those journalists describe everything in over-dramatic, self-absorbed style? It could be a trip to the shops instead of motherhood and the writer will make it sound as if she was the only one who got wet in the rain. Or when they write about decorating their new house 'oh if i knew how hard it is' and 6 months later they do it again

I asked my aunt the same question when i was scared. She said ' it is like listening to people returning from holidays. One person will tell you Rome was fab, the other will tell you it was filthy and overcrowed and will feed you drama. You have to go to Rome to find out' .

OP you will have to find out yourself . All the best with the ttc

Bloofer

I think what has not yet been said is that the whole thing of having children is very complex and stirs very contradictory emotions. You both love them to death and would die for them, and at times find them a right royal pain in the bum.

It's Saturday. Who wouldn't rather be able to stay in bed with coffee and the papers instead of having to get up and sort breakfast for moaning toddler. I certainly would! On ONE level.

But on another level which is deeper and totally contradictory to the above, I wouldnt change things for the world.

I don't think you can tell how it feels till you are doing it, this ability to both love them to death and delight in them and at the same time wish to god they would just shut up and give you some peace.

The other thing you don't realise till you do it, and which you don't really get in any other relationship with children other than parent-child, is how much they love you and you are the apple of their eye as their mother. This makes you feel GOOD! My daughter (nearly 2) thinks I am the funniest cleverest wittiest cuddliest thing since sliced bread! Often she looks a me with a smile and says "oh, MUMMY!".

Silly bint. I particularly liked your suggestion that she put the creature in a sling and wander round the V&A. I am extremely ill-qualified to comment, not having either a proper career or a child - like you I'm a TTCer. But I can think one the one hand that it needn't be as bad as she's making out, and on the other hand that despite all the preparation in the world, nothing can prepare you for it. There have been millions of threads over the years started by high flying, (formerly) wealthy, independent, coping, clever women who are finding the whole thing absolutely overwhelming. So one would be a fool to think it's not going to be very hard (excuse the use of "one". I wanted to use the third person but at the same time don't want to look wanky) On the other hand, a lot depends on your "luck" with the baby you have - a cousin had her first at 25 and hardly knew she had him. He slept when he was supposed to, stopped crying when he was comforted or fed, and smiled winningly at both parents when they engaged with him. I want one like that

The worst thing I can imagine is having to do all the feeds, wind, screaming, bathing, puke etc and not being compensated by the love-rush. I mean, say your mind and body looks on this small thing you have just produced and feels no more connection to it than you would to an especially annoying household chore? And yet you still have to serve it? That worries me quite a lot. I'm not a particularly maternal person - hence at the age of nearly 36 I still haven't reproduced, as I have spent the last 10 years thinking "oh maybe one day."

Sorry, am rambling. In conclusion, PMA and luck has a lot to do with it I would have thought.

tryingto I'm really sorry if it sounded as if I were pompously and ignorantly pontificating about how great I'd be at motherhood - Christ, if that's how it came across you'd be welcome to catch a bus to my house and deliver a double-handed slap to my silly face. Trust me, I am under no illusions about how difficult it will be. Indeed, that's the POINT. for years and years and years I thought it was utter, utter misery. The hardest work, the most thankless tasks, the most awful loss of sense of identity and self. Then out of nowhere I wanted children, and we started TTCing. And yet here I am again - all I hear is the misery, and articles like this sort of create a knee-jerk reaction in me and want to yell IT CANNOT BE THAT BAD SURELY TO GOD!

I realise that says more about my fears and feelings - possibly at heart I am afraid I am not 'good enough' to be a mother. But I just want to be absolutely clear that I'm not saying that people are doing it wrong, and that I'd do it right. I am just terrified that I'm letting myself in for misery. That's all. PLEASE tell me you understand my point - you needn't agree with it of course, but just understand!

PS it definitely doesn't have to be as grim as this lady makes out. Its true once the baby is here you can never go back to being "just you" and carefree, able to do what you want 24/7.

On the other hand you can have a lovely time with a baby. My maternity leave was one of the happiest times of my life! No work to worry about. It was summer. Every day DD and I went into town, had a coffee , met up with the other 7 girls from my NCT class at least twice a week, went to "baby screening" at the cinema and had delicious lunch after in the cinema cafe, did "buggycise" round the park, did singing class, swimming for tinies etc. It was lovely!

For me it has got harder and more drudge like since returning to work - for me personally it has meant a lot more logistics and mental pressures to manage, much more tired etc.

But am expecting DC2 and looking forward to another mat leave in October!

Best of luck TTCing.

Oh I meant YABU.

I do know what you mean OP.

My children are grown up. so I may be viewing it through rose tinted memories, but I agree it doesn't have to be like that. I think there are a number of things that come into play.

1. How easy your baby is. Unfortunately some people do have babies that are much harder work and cry or scream a lot. If you have an easy going, happy baby, life is much more fun.

1. Your relationship with OH and friends and family. If your OH doesn't do as much around the house, etc as you at the moment it will be a minor annoyance. If you have a baby and your OH doesn't do as much as you it will make your life very difficult. Having friends and family who you will see and help out makes a big difference.

1. How determined are you to get it "right". If you have a tendency to perfectionist standards then you will have a difficult time. It is hard with the first, but you need to be able to go with the flow and not get worried about housework/having time to make pureed food, etc.

1. How much you see your baby as "yours" or are happy for others to be involved. I really don't understand some of the comments posters make on here. Of course you want your baby well looked after, but if you can be more relaxed about letting your mother/inlaws look after the baby by themselves for a bit you will find life easier. Similarly I always welcomed strangers chatting to my baby/children or even playing with them while I was say in the supermarket queue. If they are not happy with the interaction, they will soon let you know.

1. How much you feel you need to constantly stimulate them. Of course they need some stimulation. But I was happy to have my baby in her pram in the garden while I was inside or to put my baby in the playpen and leave them to play there. I think if babies/toddlers get constant stimulation it can be hard for them to entertain themselves and this will make your life much harder.

1. How set in your ways you are and how much energy you have. I couldn't imagine having children now at 41. I know I am much more set in my ways than I was when I was younger and would find it much harder now than I did when I was younger. Accept this may not be the same for everyone.

1. Accepting that everything you do in your life has boring, irritating or tedious bits. I love my job generally, but there are bad days when I could happily walk out. The same with my relationship - generally I am very happy with it, but we have bad days. And of course it is like that with babies and children.

1. Try not to get lots of gadgets and to think you need to take lots with you when you go out of the house. You may need a change of clothes, nappies, a cloth and if you are not b/f a bottle. But you really don't need all the things some parents take out with them. It might seem a minor point, but if you take lots out with you, it just becomes more of a faff to go out at all.

1. How much lack of sleep affects you. Unless you are very very lucky you will have less sleep. Some cope with this well, some don't.

10. And how relaxed you are with your children. I think some would flame me for this now. But so I got more sleep I used to when my children were toddlers leave out cereal, milk, plastic bowls and spoons so theyb could get up, make breakfast and watch tv. Yes the kitchen was a mess when I came down - but so what! I think I was a bit of a slummy mummy! When you read threads here about people who constantly use anti bacterial wipes on their babies hands or who won't let people touch their baby because of germs, it is obvious that some people make lots and lots of work for themselves.

I think people are reluctant to tell you it will be great because it depends so much on how you are and how your baby is. I personally think that having a baby and children can be great fun.

there is a bit of drudgery in it tbh

"the love a mother has for her child is like nothing on earth"

What tosh! My DH loves our DD every bit as much as I do.

"we mums do belong to a secret club"

More tosh!

I think the male/female bit is kinda spot on for a couple who are both ambitious, career driven people. I find myself seething with jealousy sometimes watching dh go off to work.I am a much happier mummy working 2 days a work. Doesn't make me any less of a mummy.It's about building individual family relationships - every family unit is different.

I think some people love the little helpless baby phase. i personally didn't so much. From 4 months onwards as bits and pieces of personality have come out I have found it much more interesting. Doing things like going to people's houses etc becomes harder though - dd was a very early crawler and walker.

OP - don't make the mistake of thinking that motherhood is some kind of floaty constantly rewarding walk in the park. There is a lot of drudgery. There is a lot of bodily fluid liberally spread around. There is a lot of food stuff liberally spread around. There is the corresponding scrubbing. Doctor's waiting room and unplanned days off feature heavily. It is life stripped back to a walking through treacle slow, each grain of sand a discovery state. It is a huge test for your relationship as well. It is DIFFICULT and an ENORMOUS change to life pre children. However like most difficult things it is extremely worthwhile and gives a sense of meaning to your life that nothing else can bring.

OP -Sounds like my life and that of most of my friends. It can be 'hell' but you know what I wouldn't swap 'motherhood hell' for my old life. You see even on the worst day when absolutely everything seems against you and you are struggling to even remember the old (Pre-children) you let alone feel like the old you, one smile or cuddle or silly conversation with your LO and you won't care.

Oh and I say this with over 3 yrs as a single parent (ie all DD life) with no sleep (only just started to sleep through). I am exhausted, on a scale I never imagined I could feel before DD but it is a 'happy'(mainly!) exhaustion.

That said I did enjoy some lovely 'me' time last night and adorded my lie in today (only second in over 3 yrs!) and will thoroughly enjoy being 'me' today whilst DD is with her Daddy!

I haven't got the patience to read the whole article but I think that I can relate to it. Before we had children we had a comfortable relatively easy life, good jobs, lots of socialising and holidays and I was quite well groomed.

I assumed that motherhood was like any other job if you are dedicated and work hard you will achieve your targets and everything will go to plan. I saw women who had "let themselves go" both from a personal appearance level and professionally and I always thought that won't be me, they are obviously disorganised.

I find the newborn baby stage very easy, I have been blessed with good sleepers and takled the whole weaning stage in military style and patted myself on the back that I was "doing" motherhood so well. I even managed to start a masters degree when I was on maternity leave with my eldest cause I had so much time on my hands and there was a window free on the daily timetable.

Then my baby got to 11 months and it all went tits up. I am crap at looking after toddlers, I'm not organised, if the dishwasher is emptied by noon its a good day, I don't have time to meal plan or cook so I live on a diet of jammy dodgers and consquently I'm I fat and pasty looking. We have no money so dh is constantly stressed, we don't communicate, till operators in supermarkets are capable of reducing me to tears just by looking at me funny. I don't have anything in common with anyone and I'm just bloody uselss.

But I have a plan I have recently started a business and dug out my weightwatcher books if I can earn enough money to pay off the debts and fit into a size 10 everything will be fine.

Lesley has pretty well said all I was going to say. It is a combination of your particular baby, your particular partner and family, your own particular personality and your state of health.

I actually rather enjoyed the mother and baby groups, made some good friends there. But it didn't stop me in any way from also carrying on parts of my old life: taking the baby round the art gallery or hiking in the woods. A baby is very portable. There were hard bits, but they didn't last that long.

The writer of the article does sound as if she is describing PND and of course that is a dreadful affliction which nobody can help. But it doesn't mean every mother's experience is going to be the same as a PND-sufferer's. It's one possible scenario, not the only possible one.

The fact that many couples fall into certain roles says absolutely diddly squat about what roles you are going to fall into. You are not other couples; you are yourselves. Let it serve as a warning if you like- a prophecy it is not!

My dh does at least 50% of the housework and has always been very hands-on with the children. I have never felt the slightest temptation to pull up the drawbridge and claim the parenting for myself; I find it is much more enjoyable when shared.

Lesley I enormously appreciate your taking the time to write that - very wise.

Pommedeterre "However like most difficult things it is extremely worthwhile and gives a sense of meaning to your life that nothing else can bring." BRILLIANT. Thank you. That is a great (and chastening) perspective.

Aries you have articulate some of my worries very well, I think. It's hard for those who have children to remember (if they ever felt it!) the anxieties and worries that a long period of TTC can bring. Like I said a bit further up, if I had rather more efficient internal workings I would probably not have had the time to have these thoughts.

It's a rather doom-laden article but many women will recognise quite a few of the issues raised, I'd've thought.

You, op, seem to only want to hear positive, lovely, sunny things. And no matter how much you want to have a baby, motherhood just isn't always sunny and lovely.

I think YABU to let this irritate you so much.

Thaigreen "I'm just bloody useless* - not if you have started up a business with children to care for you ain't :) Thanks for being so honest and good luck with everything, although FGS don't entirely banish jammy dodgers from your existence. A girl needs some pleasure in life!

Cory - a prophecy it is not, indeed!

You people are ALL marvellous. By the way.

"Put the creature in a sling and wander round the V&A"

What if your back is so damaged from the pregnancy that slings are out? Does she shove her pram up the steps? And her massive bag o' baby shite equipement?

Even worse...what if she doesn't live anyhere NEAR the V&A or other museums? Does she go on the train? Lacking in sleep, travel on public transport is hairy at best.

Stop reading this stuff.