to find this article on motherhood inFURiating?

[BlooferLady]

Guardian writer in 'motherhood is hell' shock

Disclaimer: je suis TTCing. Erm, for a LONG time!

I didn't want children for years. YEARS! Was violently opposed to it And you know why? Because it looked like one long unending saga of drudgery, misery, isolation and loss of identity and self-respect (I have a large family and thus had the opportunity to observe its effects up close every 18 months or so).

We're TTCing now - hormones and a little wisdom took over, and I would very much like to be a mother. And yet here on MN and in the press I find my old terrors reinforced, and this article sums it all up. Everything I feared is true...

BUT IS IT? By the end of the article I wanted to slap the woman. She complains of her life dwindling to a miserable compressed world of perma-exhaustion, leaking breasts, nappy changes, never seeing her old friends, losing her sense of a professional life, only ever socialising with mothers and mother and toddler groups, bitterly envying women who still go to work, angry with her partner for not helping out round the house...

Someone PLEASE tell me it doesn't have to be like this. I wanted to yell at her, get out of the damn house and DO stuff you moaning bint! No-one MAKES you go to mother and toddler groups - put the creature in a sling and wander round the V&A! Let your partner do a bottle feed in the evening and go out for a boozy dinner! Do some work from home! MAKE your partner help out!

Surely there are people here on MN whose entire character isn't subsumed into the drudgery of being a mother? Who continue to be lively, interested in the larger world, engaged with their friends, interested in their career, happy in their relationships, still maintaining a sense of self and self-respect? For motherhood extends, informs, illuminates their life - doesn't effectively end it! Because if not, I don't want children. AIBU?!

Which is a blow if you want to return to work, I agree.

If you don't and have a whole and very fulfilled life outside of the home and of work, then that's quite different.

yes people need to make informed choices and project consequences of choices,write a list weigh up pros and cons,try get arrangement suits both parties.and every couple makes different choices,i do wonder when i see the male career go stellar as the female does all the giving up. i know i have specific take on this,as i always knew i didnt want to be sahm. other hand I have friends who adore their sahm and suits them v well

I would worry if my children didn't have a career /trade/qualifications even if they didn't use them for a period of time.

I think it is women who leave school, have kids and then split up who are the most vulnerable as they are the ones who often end up on benefits as they just cannot earn enough with no qualifications or experience.

Older, professional women are usually okay even with time out.

i kind of always had it all mapped out certainly my upbringing was stick in at school earn your keep. i think women who take career breaks are disadvantaged financially and institutionally when they try to re-enter job market.certainly borne out by social research

You keep coming from an angle from those who want to work without even considering those who don't.

It isn't possible sometimes for BOTH partners to have big careers. Sometimes one person wants that and the other is happy to SAH.

Sometimes one partners career takes off to the extent that they cannot be on flexi time/part time/school play time off time and they don't want to. They don't WANT equal parenting , they want to be the earner, the career one. They may have a partner who feels exactly the same and wants to SAH and be the support.

The only thing that matters is not some political statement or some idea of equal nappy changing but that both partners are completely happy with the arrangement.

I can't speak for anyone else but after more than twenty years of marriage I can't remember the last time we had an argument over day to day life stuff. He has his role, I have mine, we both respect completely the other and life is very harmonious and as stressfree as it can be with five kids!

and conversely you come at it from your angle- the non working supported by partner salary.

No.

I'm coming at it from an angle of choice. I'm not making statements that all women should work, that all partnerships should share the load equally.

I think every one should make choices for THEM. I couldn't give a shiny one if other women work/don't work/work part time so why other women get so hot under the collar about it I really don't know. Live YOUR life but don't presume to pontificate how others should. If you are happy, why do you give a damn?

Incidentally, most of the SAHM I know have pretty hardworking, long hours husbands. Those men simply could not do their jobs without their wives. Those men accept, understand and totally appreciate this. If the men can see this, I find it very sad that so many other women can't.

you favour choice to be dependant upon someone else salary?is a precarious choice imo, which as you point out allows male career to go off like a rocket,whilst female career goes on hold

i advocate women think hard and long before they become wholly dependant upon partner wage. as it is hard to come back from.

you can stamp your feeties and go on about my angle.you are equally asserting your angle and its purported benefits.much as people do on discussion forums.clearly you give a damn too, hence the active participation.im not getting a languid "whatever" from your posts. you see that's the point of online discussion things are opined upon,sometimes stridently

you could equally go over to any mn thread and ask why they give a damn?

No. I . Don't.

I favour CHOICE.

You don't, it would seem. It's your way or the highway.

Can I ask you what you do for a living, scottishmummy?

not at all i favour think long and hard before dependency upon someone else. has long term economic and career ramifications.as i said everyone makes their individual choices that suit their family.but i do think their is societal expectation female takes the bigger share of childcare because she is female and i have a problem with that

you stridently assert your opinion
i also stridently assert mine
but dont make out you have been sidelined here.you have actively posted

You said this :

and yes imo women do need to work and maintain a social and financial independence for themselves

Not sure how you think that comment equates to women having a choice?

Do you think women can only have a social independence through work?

of course people have choice, not compulsory detained at work or compelled to return after mat leave .

certainly working and ability to command wage goes long way to enhancing an individual mental,physical health and life choices.

Yes, if you have a fulfilling job you enjoy.

Being stuck in a monotonous, low paid job you don't enjoy when you'd rather be elsewhere can't be good for individual mental and physical health, surely?

What do you do ,Scottishmummy?

An awful lot women in the busy youngish children phase are happy at home but rol on 10 years from now and we would see a lot who say they are happy now pretty fed up. Their husband has gone off the 20 y ears younger colleague and the children no longer need them, they cannot get jobs and they are not in their 50s always blissfully happy. Plenty regret giving up careers. It is not always the case that they are financially protected by divorce law either.

An awful lot of people seem pretty good at hiding money or pretending their business doesn't earn much to avoid their responsibilities and who do the children blame when mummy is in effect on the street with them and their lives are changed - mummy who was silly enough to give up her earning power. I even had someone (and this is not the first time so there must be a fair few men around like this) on the phone to me yesterday telling me how he had hidden assets from his divorcing wife. Why they think this will endear them to me I don't know? I think I said something like so it's commendable to avoid your responsibilties, is it?

not all men are shits Xenia

Yes, I know that and plenty have wives at home who know and often manage the family assets and budgets. I can't imagine how a woman would want to be economically inactive and dependent on a man for money but there seem to be a few of those around. They obviously need the Xenia weekend re-education programme to have the scales lifted from their eyes. Come back here when they are 60 and tell me they are happy with the choices they made.

you keep moving the goal posts xenia - next it will be 80

I am 43 and been doing this very very happily since 24

Nota - me too.

But I'm a bit older

Xenia, TBF, you're the only one on here who seems bitter and unhappy.

Xenia weekend re-education programme- interesting tell me more.is it strict

Only strict for those silly dependent women, scottishmummy.

Nice and lenient for Xenias fellow uber working mummies.

i am too busy at work to attend though

That's all right, I'll go for both of us.

Better ask DH for permission and a bit of spending money, though.

ask for your pocket money to be increased

I couldn't possibly Scottishmummy.

I already service him twice weekly for £7.50 a time. I don't think I could cope with making it thrice.